Prepare for Johnny Football!

[Messiah]

Manziel played very well yesterday.

[The Legend]

Manziel played very well yesterday.

He led one touchdown drive and turned the ball over twice, including a horrible interception in the red zone and only led his team to 9 points, but sure if we want to call that a quarterback playing very well in this quarterback friendly era, sure why not.

[Messiah]

Stop letting your hate for him blind you.

Everyone who watched the game has said Manziel played extremely well. Even your head coach who has had no issue calling him out before has said so. The 1 INT was bad (although it isn't even like it was a "pass", just him mishandling the ball), but outside of that he did well. It isn't his fault the Browns suck.

[The Legend]

Stop letting your hate for him blind you.

Everyone who watched the game has said Manziel played extremely well. Even your head coach who has had no issue calling him out before has said so. The 1 INT was bad (although it isn't even like it was a "pass", just him mishandling the ball), but outside of that he did well. It isn't his fault the Browns suck.

That wasn't an INT, it was a fumble and I don't really have an issue with it, just a fluky play that happens. The interception he threw was at the goal line into triple coverage when the game was relatively still close as a one or two score game in the third quarter. That was horrible.

And Mike Pettine didn't say he played extremely well, he said that based on his history and the standard that Manziel has set for himself he showed much improvement. That's true. That's fine. Manziel played a great game when judging Manziel on the Manziel Curve, but I'm sick of judging Browns QB's on a curve.

I NEED A HALL OF FAME QB AND I NEED HIM TODAY!!!!!!!!!

[Messiah]

You just have to be patient.

The QBs who come in and look good immediately without any mistakes are usually (there are some exceptions, like Wilson, but Wilson has his own issues) the ones who play pussy football, like Bridgewater or Griffin. It's better off letting your young quarterback make a lot of mistakes (assuming they are still making a lot of good plays too) because that means they are a big boy quarterback like Luck, Carr, and Cam. I'm really concerned for Mariota, mainly because he runs a very simplified offense. Have you seen him play? Damn near everything he does is one-read and throw. It's like what Griffin did when I always called him out on it in 2012 (I think Danielson and Tim remember, I'd always mention it in the shoutbox). Compared to Winston, who makes big time throws. Impressive as hell to me, Winston is gonna win a lot of games in the NFL believe me.

So just ride with it. Manziel is a big boy QB, not a punk. Now just because you are a big boy QB doesn't mean you are good and really I don't think Manziel will ever be a top 15 QB, but still.

[The Legend]

Two things, first of all, there are still plenty of examples where Manziel missed horribly on reads and basic fundamental QB play, like the example of not audibling to a quick pass to an uncovered WR, like I showed in that post. Remind me, wasn't it you that mocked a QB hardcore for not reading that same exact thing? Hell, you even said that you don't think Manziel is going to make it as a good QB and yet you are arguing with me for saying the same thing.

As for QB's that look good immediately falling apart, yeah Brady really fell apart after winning the Super Bowl in his first year starting. Rodgers really dwindled after bursting onto the scene.

[Messiah]

I'm not arguing with you over whether Manziel is going to be a good QB or not. I just said he played well on Sunday. You said otherwise and so I disagreed.

I like Manziel. There should be more players/athletes like him and I hate how society tries to make everyone act the same. It's why I love guys like Cam (who is a genuinely good guy) and Mayweather so much as well. Plus he is fun as hell to watch. So yeah I'm going to defend him more than I do Kaepernick, but if you were just to say you don't think Manziel will be any good, I would agree. Manziel just isn't good enough to be a starting NFL QB, nothing really to do with how he prepares or anything.

As for QB's that look good immediately falling apart, yeah Brady really fell apart after winning the Super Bowl in his first year starting. Rodgers really dwindled after bursting onto the scene.

What are you talking about? I just said there are exceptions. Besides, Rodgers was in like his 4th year under a top tier offensive coach. Not even close to the same.

When a guy like Griffin comes in, plays extremely efficient football with minimal mistakes as a rookie or 2nd year guy, it raises a lot of question marks about what he is being asked to do. Same when Foles did it. Same when Bradford did it (although his rookie season wasn't even that good, I don't know why it got so much hype). Same when Kaepernick did it. Same how Mariota is doing it. Compared to guys like Luck, Newton, P. Manning, etc., who are immediately asked to make high-level reads and throws, thus mistakes are inevitable because no rookie is going to be able to decipher NFL defenses in an instant. Even Wilson doesn't - he doesn't have the turnovers but that is because he runs around backwards like a chicken with his head cut off because he doesn't understand pocket presence. A young QB is supposed to make mistakes. Those who don't are either really good at what they do or having everything dumbed down for them. I mean, Bridgewater plays like he's scared. I'll take Carr over him any day of the week, but look at who everyone was saying was better after their rookie season.

That is why numbers lie. Remember back when people thought Griffin and Kaepernick were better than Newton? The difference is defenses figured them (Kaep and RG3) out and they never developed the ability to read a defense, the most significant long-term attribute a quarterback can have.

Now will Manziel develop that trait? I don't know, probably not, plus I don't think he has the arm talent to succeed. My point is having a young quarterback make a lot of mistakes isn't always the end of the world. As long as they are sprinkling in good plays with it too, it is to be expected. And Manziel is doing exactly that. There is a lot of good with the bad. Now we just have to see how much he continues to progress and you would be lying to yourself if you don't think he hasn't made a lot of strides in less than a year.

[The Legend]

I'm going to disagree with one thing you said, I believe a lot of Manziel's problems have everything, or at least a whole lot, with his attitude towards and his preparation. I fully believe, to paraphrase Yogi Berra, elite level quarterbacking is 90% mental preparation and the other half is physical. I'm going to bring up something we've argued about to before, not re-hashing old ground, but to make an important point. Remember Manziel's drinking and driving incident from a few months ago? It's important to remember, Manziel had at least two drinks (that's how many he said he had) on a Monday afternoon before 2 pm. Last I checked Monday afternoon was a workday on pretty much all NFL schedules. Do you think Manning or Brady ever had two drinks on the afternoon of a workday in their careers? How about just in the first two-three years of their careers while they knew they needed to learn to master their system and what other defenses were doing? I don't and if look back at old articles that talk about their work and training habits they would back it up, their training regiments are pretty much legendary in the same way a Jerry Rice workout was.

Your quarterback pretty much needs to be a nerd, a football junkie and a workaholic in today's NFL. I hate the CBA and the incredibly low standard it sets for all players, but particularly quarterbacks and young quarterbacks, for what is considered an adequate devotion to their job and what the organization is asking of them. A huge part of why young quarterbacks look so awful in the NFL right now is that none of them are required to put in the work necessary to be great and almost none of them are doing it voluntarily for fear of backlash from other players or their union or just a total slacker attitude. Organizations are paying these guys millions of dollars, they should be able to mandate that they all work until they have everything mastered. Or if not that, at least expect that they wouldn't be drinking on a workday afternoon.

I made a comment while watching the game this Sunday. Manziel can make all the plays that Manning or Brady never could and he can't make any of the plays they can make. All of his great plays involve running pre-maturely from the pocket, after probably ignoring his primary or secondary read, to turn a play into a scramble drill and bombing the ball deep down field (his arm is plenty strong enough for NFL, that I believe). He has yet to (and probably never will) make a play where he walks up to the line of scrimmage, recognizes what the defense is doing, recognizes how the play he has called attacks the defense's weakness (or audibles to a play that does that) and sets his team up for success before the snap. All the great QB's in the NFL, recognize defensive schemes and win before the snap far more often than they win after the snap. Manziel can't win before the snap and he has yet to show a dedication to his profession that says he'll ever learn how to win before the snap.

[The Legend]

Manziel is going to be named starting QB again this week. Who wants to bet whether his next drunken bender comes before or after the public announcement?