WWE isn't so bad regarding race

[The Legend]

So, I've been thinking about this for a while and I think this is worth being brought up. It's a favorite pastime of people to look at WWE and how they do things and try to find racial problems and inequalities and pile on the WWE for being racist or some version of that. Well, I have a comparison that should show that the WWE really isn't that bad compared to others.

Recently a cable channel that I have has picked up a contract showing NJPW episodes from late 2013 to mid 2014. Well, you want to talk about racial inequality... First of all, I've watched right about a half dozen episodes and I've seen 3, maybe 4 wrestlers that aren't Japanese in the entire promotion (Carl Anderson, Prince Devitt and Fatu's son - whose name escapes me at the moment - are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head).

Beyond the miniscule number of non-Japanese wrestlers is this fact, each of the racially diverse are heels. That's right, the Japanese audience doesn't cheer for a single guy that isn't Japanese in the entire promotion. Where's the outrage? Where's the indignation?

[Everlong]

1. Just because other companies might have a race problem doesn't mean that the WWE does not, and doesn't put them in any better light.

2. Are these non-Japanese characters only afforded gimmicks that are racial stereotypes, and are they seemingly held back from achieving their potential because of their race? If the answer to both of those is yes, then we can talk.

[The Legend]

1. Just because other companies might have a race problem doesn't mean that the WWE does not, and doesn't put them in any better light.

2. Are these non-Japanese characters only afforded gimmicks that are racial stereotypes, and are they seemingly held back from achieving their potential because of their race? If the answer to both of those is yes, then we can talk.

2. Well it's hard to tell since everyone only cuts promos in Japanese for the most part, but from what I can tell nobody has any kind of gimmick in NJPW. The fact of the matter from character standpoint nobody has much of a character in NJPW which makes it a completely different animal and their promos are even weird, there's no story they are really telling it's more like a regular sporting event in America post-game press conference.

1. I think the bottom line is that human beings are naturally drawn to people like them and that they can relate to on various levels starting with the one people first recognize when meeting a person. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it wrong, it simply makes it human nature and just the way it is.

[Daz]

I read this and assumed it was satirical.

NJPW use more gaijin that pretty much any other Japanese company. What's more, you're factually inaccurate. ReDRagon aren't potrayed as heels, more tweeners. Alex Shelley is not a heel. Forever Hooligans (A Russian and a Cuban) lent more towards being faces during their last run. Everyone is just pretty much an athlete, with only the Bullet Club, Captain New Japan, Jushin Liger etc. having more traditional Western sorts of gimmicks.

Also, AJ Styles is one of the first Americans to actually break through and be used in advertising for events, which is a rarity for foreign talent in Japan. He's also a two time IWGP Champion. In fact, currently, pretty much the entire Bullet Club hold championships. The Bullet Club may be heels, but they're also portrayed as serious characters that the people respect, and their gimmick isn't at all related to the colour of their skin, or where they're from. There's also a Japanese member in the group, as well as a Latin American spin off, that includes Mexican wrestlers such as Mephisto, Terrible and Ray Buccanero. That's the difference and why there's no indignation.

[The Legend]

OK, I'd like to further my case. First of all, NJPW hasn't shown any of those people that Daz has mentioned on television because they don't care to or I don't know what.

Also, like I mentioned I've only seen the three guys as foreigners used in the promotion, all three guys are only used as a part of the same faction, I guess because the foreigners can only get along with each other. Secondly, that faction calls themselves the "Bullet Club" and uses their hands as a gun gesture for their taunts, because you know crazy gun carrying white people.

[SortaCreative]

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

1. I think the bottom line is that human beings are naturally drawn to people like them and that they can relate to on various levels starting with the one people first recognize when meeting a person. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it wrong, it simply makes it human nature and just the way it is.

What has this got anything to do with making black guys criminal, Mexicans gardeners and brown people terrorists?

[The Legend]

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

Yes.

[Str8Shooter]

Prince Devitt, aka Finn Balor was one of their most over performers while he was there. The guy moved his way up the card the same as anyone else and earned the respect that was afforded to him.

@Daz pretty much took all the words right out of my mouth. AJ Styles has won the IWGP title twice, and he's barely been in the company for more than a year. The Bullet Club is quite possibly the most over thing in the company and it's almost entirely comprised of foreign workers. Like Daz said they have a stronghold on the titles there right now as well.

That's not to mention the history of American workers who have had huge runs of success in Japan in various promotions. From Stan Hansen to Bruiser Brody to Johnny Ace and Dr. Death. Those guys had more success in Japan than anywhere else the wrestled in their careers. Foreign workers have done just fine in Japan.

[SortaCreative]

Foreign workers have done just fine in Japan.

Where as the opposite can rarely be said about the WWE.

Tbh, your title just shows how thin the argument is. It's "not so bad". "He's not so bad, he only hits me sometimes".

1. I think the bottom line is that human beings are naturally drawn to people like them and that they can relate to on various levels starting with the one people first recognize when meeting a person. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it wrong, it simply makes it human nature and just the way it is.

Also i'd like to bring this back up and say two things:

1. That's an awfully long winded way to cover up the fact that you said "human beings are naturally drawn to people like them". I.e: OF COURSE I SHOULD LIKE THE TERRORIST. HE'S BROWN. SO AM I!

2. That's not at all true. People are drawn to people they can relate to. Only narrow minded people count skin colour in that calculation.

[Daz]

Also, let's not forget the company is called New Japan Pro Wrestling, and is based in Japan. Of course the majority of talent is Japanese. The fact for the past two years now the Bullet Club have been so heavily featured is something to commend them for, not use to absolve WWE of their failure to book anyone that isn't a white America prominently.

[VaderBomb]

Lies. The level of gaijins has always fluctuated but there's always a healthy load of them. NJPW has always been pretty fair considering it's roster diversity.

When was the last time a Japanese wrestler has been treated as a top contender in the WWE?

Oh yeah... never.

[The Legend]

Also, let's not forget the company is called New Japan Pro Wrestling, and is based in Japan. Of course the majority of talent is Japanese. The fact for the past two years now the Bullet Club have been so heavily featured is something to commend them for, not use to absolve WWE of their failure to book anyone that isn't a white America prominently.

Let's not forget the WWE is based in America. Also, the Bullet Club are portrayed as heels as we've already covered.

[The Legend]

Lies. The level of gaijins has always fluctuated but there's always a healthy load of them. NJPW has always been pretty fair considering it's roster diversity.

When was the last time a Japanese wrestler has been treated as a top contender in the WWE?

Oh yeah... never.

When was the last time the WWE had a Japanese wrestler you wanted them to treat as a top contender?

[Daz]

Also, let's not forget the company is called New Japan Pro Wrestling, and is based in Japan. Of course the majority of talent is Japanese. The fact for the past two years now the Bullet Club have been so heavily featured is something to commend them for, not use to absolve WWE of their failure to book anyone that isn't a white America prominently.

Let's not forget the WWE is based in America. Also, the Bullet Club are portrayed as heels as we've already covered.

As already pointed out though, they may be heels, but they're not caricatures of their culture by any stretch of the imagination. They're also treated entirely equal to their Japanese counterparts. The same cannot be said in regards to WWE and their foreign imports. The point is, NJPW have treated their foreign talent with a greater deal of respect than WWE has.

[The Legend]

I don't even know why I try with some of you people.

[Everlong]

I don't even know why I try with some of you people.

I mean, I don't really know what you expected out of this thread

[Daz]

I don't even know why I try with some of you people.

Again, I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. I literally thought you were being satirical.

[Hanley!]

Daz and Sortacreative have covered much of what I was going to say, but I want to make one additional point that I think is important: The Japanese should in no way be setting the standard here.

America is not just a more liberal country, it's a far more multi-cultural country. The English speaking world is massive compared to the Japanese speaking world, and even just within America itself, there is a far greater diversity of races and ethnicities.

Looking at the NJPW roster, the percentage of Japanese talent to foreign talent is probably not representative of the country as a whole. There's actually less diversity in that country than what they're showing us in NJPW. Meanwhile, on WWE television it's the exact opposite. The range of talent that they present on television, particularly towards the top of their roster, is not representative of the American population. There is more racial and cultural diversity in America than what is depicted on television.

Which also puts the lie to the idea that it's okay for WWE to just push white Americans because people like to watch performers that are similar to them. This suggests that the American audience consists almost entirely of white people born in America. The notion gets even sillier when you realise that WWE is not even an American company. It's an international company, tours and airs shows all over the world, and likes to brag about that fact. They have a much broader audience than NJPW and should be catering to a broader audience. Not just the one they're most comfortable with.

Also the way WWE saddles people of other races with offensive stereotypes as gimmicks is another massive part of the problem in that company, but I've talked about that before and the others have already covered it in this topic.

Overall when it comes to race, NJPW are doing pretty good considering, and WWE are doing pretty bad in general.

[Str8Shooter]

I don't even know why I try with some of you people.

Hey I'm on your side in a lot of the debate threads

I just don't think you have a leg to stand on in this argument. As someone who at least semi regularly watches New Japan I don't recall ever once thinking that the foreign talent were being mistreated or miscast in favour of Japanese talents. If anything I'm impressed with how they are handled. In fact there's probably people in Japan who would argue that they might be getting too much of a push.

[Locke]