Top Matches Being Discussed for WrestleMania 31 Involving The Rock, Triple H & Sting; Who Will John Cena Face?

[Hanley!]

Here's the thing, you say people are allowed to have different opinions and yet your tone throughout your post is dripping with elitism. You basically are saying that anybody who wants to see Rock vs Triple H "doesn't have standards". Or wanting "better entertainment". What exactly is "better entertainment"? There are people out there who are perfectly happy seeing Rock and Triple H wrestle, in fact there's been quite a few in this thread alone. In their opinion that would be just fine entertainment.

I'm sorry if you think my comment is dripping with elitism, but he just told @Porkchop that he had a giant stick up his butt for not wanting to see the match even though he didn't actually provide a reason that it would be any good.

I find it more patronising when someone like Porkchop tries to explain why he doesn't think an angle is worthy of attention and people just tell him to get over it and learn to have some "fun". To me that seems unhelpful and dismissive.

Clearly I'm the cunt though. Sorry about that.

[SlightlyJames]

See to me I don't see John Cena as perfect or even believe he's really portrayed as such. I relate to the fact that he stays true to who he is even when being hated upon. That he stays true even though a million people want to pull him in a million different directions he still looks at himself in the mirror and says I have to be the person I believe in. I relate to it because I constantly have people in my life that are trying to change who I am as well and I admire John Cena's ability to say fuck it I am who I am and anybody that doesn't like it doesn't matter to me.

I completely get what you're saying here but I don't think you understand where a lot of people are coming from when we beg for some sort of change in this character. We're not asking him to change who he is as a person, it's just swell that he's happy with who he is and he likes portraying the John Cena we see on TV but the fact is that the John Cena we see on TV is a complete bore. If he's not comfortable with even pretending to be an interesting character to entertain the millions of people who watch him on TV every week then in my opinion he simply shouldn't be on TV every week.

Here's the thing, you say people are allowed to have different opinions and yet your tone throughout your post is dripping with elitism. You basically are saying that anybody who wants to see Rock vs Triple H "doesn't have standards". Or wanting "better entertainment". What exactly is "better entertainment"? There are people out there who are perfectly happy seeing Rock and Triple H wrestle, in fact there's been quite a few in this thread alone. In their opinion that would be just fine entertainment.

I'm sorry if you think my comment is dripping with elitism, but he just told @PorkChop that he had a giant stick up his butt for not wanting to see the match even though he didn't actually provide a reason that it would be any good.

I find it more patronising when someone like Porkchop tries to explain why he doesn't think an angle is worthy of attention and people just tell him to get over it and learn to have some "fun". To me that seems unhelpful and dismissive.

Clearly I'm the cunt though. Sorry about that.

Come on now man, nobody's calling you a cunt here. Just like I'm sure your comments about having standards weren't intended as an insult to the people who want to see Rock/HHH.

It's easy to see why some people would want to see it, they're two of the biggest stars of the company from when a lot of people feel wrestling was at its peak. Their thing on Smackdown was pretty entertaining, I want to see more of that and from a in ring standpoint, chances are they could still put on a good enough match and it could be enjoyable for both current fans and those who only watch on occasion. It doesn't mean people don't have standards.

At the same time, if you don't want to see it, that's fine, it doesn't mean you're a stick in the mud, it just means you want to see different things at Wrestlemania like using the time to give current guys big moments and establish themselves. I'd like to see that too but the show is 4 hours long, there's space for a throwback or two that has absolutely no long-term effect or consequences. If nothing else, this match means that neither of these guys are in the main event.

[Str8Shooter]

Here's the thing, you say people are allowed to have different opinions and yet your tone throughout your post is dripping with elitism. You basically are saying that anybody who wants to see Rock vs Triple H "doesn't have standards". Or wanting "better entertainment". What exactly is "better entertainment"? There are people out there who are perfectly happy seeing Rock and Triple H wrestle, in fact there's been quite a few in this thread alone. In their opinion that would be just fine entertainment.

I'm sorry if you think my comment is dripping with elitism, but he just told @PorkChop that he had a giant stick up his butt for not wanting to see the match even though he didn't actually provide a reason that it would be any good.

I find it more patronising when someone like Porkchop tries to explain why he doesn't think an angle is worthy of attention and people just tell him to get over it and learn to have some "fun". To me that seems unhelpful and dismissive.

Clearly I'm the cunt though. Sorry about that.

Well HFX was being his usual abrasive self

I'm just saying that it seems like the people on here who want to see Rock vs Triple H can at least see your point about why you don't care to see it. They may not agree but they can see why you would think it would be a waste of time or better spent on newer guys. It doesn't seem like the anti Rock/HHH people are making much of an effort to see why there might be people out there who would like to see those guys and that's okay.

[Enygma]

Welp, we all know who's ending Rusev's streak. And being fed to Cena. Again. Then his career will go nowhere. I'd much rather see Rusev vs Angle instead.

[Hanley!]

^^ Nobody's really saying why it would be good outside of "They're two big stars from the Attitude Era" though. Which sounds more like a plain fact than a compliment in itself. I mean, I can understand that it'll be a big spectacle, and anyone who gives that as the reason they want to see the match would be entirely justified.

It just seems only the people who aren't interested are giving reasons. The people who want to see the match are just saying "get over it, it's fun." There seems to be a bit of a "good enough" mentality. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe some people here have reasons for thinking the match will be the best thing ever. But I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing people saying "it's good enough" and then making fun of someone else for wanting something a bit fresher or more creative.

[SlightlyJames]

It just seems only the people who aren't interested are giving reasons. The people who want to see the match are just saying "get over it, it's fun." There seems to be a bit of a "good enough" mentality. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe some people here have reasons for thinking the match will be the best thing ever. But I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing people saying "it's good enough" and then making fun of someone else for wanting something a bit fresher or more creative.

I've made fun of nobody, as for why I want to see it I figured it would go without saying but as an extension of them being two of the biggest guys of the attitude era, they're both guys I really enjoyed seeing in that time. I've enjoyed seeing them since then. I like The Rock, I like Triple H, I want to see them wrestle each other again as I think they could put on a good match and however limited their interactions beforehand might be, I think I would enjoy them.

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

[prophet]

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

It wouldn't accomplish anything though? Sure they might have some interesting interactions the weeks leading up to the PPV but afterwards...that'd be it. At least if one of them faced a full-timer and put them over we've sort of got that and the match has accomplished something but to see two 90's part-timers facing each other sort of feels like a complete waste of my time, hence why I'd rather not see it. I don't have a problem with anyone who does though and were it to happen I'd get behind it because there's nothing that can be done but yeah...not for me.

I certainly don't think it's fair to say that anyone who doesn't want to see the match has a stick up their ass.

[SlightlyJames]

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

It wouldn't accomplish anything though? Sure they might have some interesting interactions the weeks leading up to the PPV but afterwards...that'd be it. At least if one of them faced a full-timer and put them over we've sort of got that and the match has accomplished something but to see two 90's part-timers facing each other sort of feels like a complete waste of my time, hence why I'd rather not see it. I don't have a problem with anyone who does though and were it to happen I'd get behind it because there's nothing that can be done but yeah...not for me.

I certainly don't think it's fair to say that anyone who doesn't want to see the match has a stick up their ass.

Like I said before, not wanting to see it doesn't mean you have a stick up your ass or anything, just that you want to see different things. My view here is that being an entertaining match is an accomplishment in itself, it doesn't have to have long-term bearings.

[Tom]

I personally would not have a problem with The Rock vs Triple H occuring at Mania. I think it has the potential to be a decent throwback to past years and more than likely will be an entertaining match. However, in my personal opinion, it also represents an inherent problem that currently exists with WWE; their inability to create new stars. And I believe one of the main reasons they have struggled to do that is because of the way they view John Cena.

WWE, for such a long time now, have had John Cena as their marquee guy. For the better part of the last five years, he has been the constant in the main event, the guy WWE doesn't want anyone to surpass that is on their roster. Even when he wasn't the champion he was still the guy that headlined the large majority of pay per views, concluded Raw etc. My problem with John Cena is this: why do the WWE feel the need to think that they should only have ONE GUY who can do this; that they can only have ONE GUY who can be the top draw. Why can't they book other characters as his equal. Because it won't make John Cena any less popular than he is at the moment. Kids will still buy his shirts. House shows that he is headlining will still sell loads of tickets. However, if they booked another character(s) at an equal level to him. If they have a guy(s) that are presented to the audience that they are on Cena's level on a consistent basis, then they would have alternatives to Cena. They would be able to book Cena in more meaningful matches and feuds on televison. That other superstar(s) would help the house shows that don't feature John Cena sell more tickets.

Not only would this superstar be on the same level as John Cena, but because there are more "top dogs" in the company, it would allow WWE to do more with the John Cena character. Maybe they could take up the opportunity to do the one thing they can do to make him interesting (to me anyway) and turn him heel? Because they would have a guy who can immediately step in and take his place.

You see, this is one of the things that made WWE so great to watch in 1998. Austin may have been viewed as the main guy but there was so many other characters around him that were on his level. Foley, Triple H, The Rock, The Undertaker are the prime examples of these. It made the overall product more meaningful and matches at the upper end of the card more interesting. Imagine if WWE had that exact same system now, and gave talent more opportunity to grow and adapt like these did? The only guy they have REALLY done that with over the past few years, and made him look like a star around Cena is CM Punk, and one could argue that he was not looked upon the same way Cena was internally.

That is one of the problems I have with WWE (there are more). Sure some will argue that Lesnar is on Cena's level but it would be great to see guys who appear week in/week out who are. It would certainly make me watch more of Raw than I do. As I said, The Rock vs Triple H will be a good throwback to the past. But it would be great if we could see such a high standard of stars on a week in/week out basis. And WWE's mentality towards John Cena is a reason in my opinion as to why that is not happening!

[Hanley!]

It just seems only the people who aren't interested are giving reasons. The people who want to see the match are just saying "get over it, it's fun." There seems to be a bit of a "good enough" mentality. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe some people here have reasons for thinking the match will be the best thing ever. But I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing people saying "it's good enough" and then making fun of someone else for wanting something a bit fresher or more creative.

I've made fun of nobody, as for why I want to see it I figured it would go without saying but as an extension of them being two of the biggest guys of the attitude era, they're both guys I really enjoyed seeing in that time. I've enjoyed seeing them since then. I like The Rock, I like Triple H, I want to see them wrestle each other again as I think they could put on a good match and however limited their interactions beforehand might be, I think I would enjoy them.

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

Yeah, that's fair enough man. I have no problem with that.

I wouldn't even have as big a problem with this match if it wasn't for the matches they focused on during the last several Wrestlemanias. So this just feels like more of the same. If it was just this year then I might be more willing to get on board with it.

From my point of view, it just feels like they gave up a long time ago on using Wrestlemania for the most important matches, the most interesting matches or the most narratively rewarding matches. Now it only features the "biggest" matches. The ones with the most sparkle, but not the most substance. I guess I'm just disappointed by that. I don't think people expect as much as they could from Wrestlemania anymore.

[The Legend]

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

It wouldn't accomplish anything though? Sure they might have some interesting interactions the weeks leading up to the PPV but afterwards...that'd be it. At least if one of them faced a full-timer and put them over we've sort of got that and the match has accomplished something but to see two 90's part-timers facing each other sort of feels like a complete waste of my time, hence why I'd rather not see it. I don't have a problem with anyone who does though and were it to happen I'd get behind it because there's nothing that can be done but yeah...not for me.

I certainly don't think it's fair to say that anyone who doesn't want to see the match has a stick up their ass.

I think you are sort of missing the point of why the WWE does anything though. Their goal in anything they do is to sell as many tickets/PPV Buys as they possibly can for any particular event. Their goal is to put on a show that as many people as possible want to see and the name drawing power of HHH and the Rock alone helps that happen. This is particularly true of WrestleMania where it's their biggest showcase of all, they aren't particularly worried about the future at that moment, but the present.

[SlightlyJames]

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

It wouldn't accomplish anything though? Sure they might have some interesting interactions the weeks leading up to the PPV but afterwards...that'd be it. At least if one of them faced a full-timer and put them over we've sort of got that and the match has accomplished something but to see two 90's part-timers facing each other sort of feels like a complete waste of my time, hence why I'd rather not see it. I don't have a problem with anyone who does though and were it to happen I'd get behind it because there's nothing that can be done but yeah...not for me.

I certainly don't think it's fair to say that anyone who doesn't want to see the match has a stick up their ass.

I think you are sort of missing the point of why the WWE does anything though. Their goal in anything they do is to sell as many tickets/PPV Buys as they possibly can for any particular event. Their goal is to put on a show that as many people as possible want to see and the name drawing power of HHH and the Rock alone helps that happen. This is particularly true of WrestleMania where it's their biggest showcase of all, they aren't particularly worried about the future at that moment, but the present.

There's a bit of a misguided trend nowadays where people confuse the fact it would be good business for WWE with the fact that it would be compelling/enjoyable to watch. I don't care how many Pay Per View buys something is going to get, that doesn't affect my enjoyment of anything.

It's all fair and well to understand the logic behind why WWE would do something but a lot of the time people hand wave bad TV with explaining the thought process of why they did it. I'm not particularly sure I'm making the point I mean to here or if it's the right place to do it but it's something do I notice on occasion.

[The Legend]

See to me I don't see John Cena as perfect or even believe he's really portrayed as such. I relate to the fact that he stays true to who he is even when being hated upon. That he stays true even though a million people want to pull him in a million different directions he still looks at himself in the mirror and says I have to be the person I believe in. I relate to it because I constantly have people in my life that are trying to change who I am as well and I admire John Cena's ability to say fuck it I am who I am and anybody that doesn't like it doesn't matter to me.

I can understand your perspective here to a certain extent. Here's what I'm genuinely interested in though: clearly you can relate to what John Cena goes through. But does that not make it even lamer when he doesn't react to any of it? The people in your life who try to change who you are ... they have some kind of impact on you, right? They make you sad or frustrated or something, I imagine. Otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up. Is it not then a farce and an insult for them to trot out this character who you're supposed to relate to that doesn't fucking care one iota about any of it?

I just find that strange. It's one thing to relate to a character who has been through the same things as you, but people generally relate far more to characters who react to these situations in a similar way to them.

From that perspective nobody can relate to John Cena, except maybe your garden variety sociopath. Because he doesn't react to any of it.

I don't believe that he doesn't react to any of it though. He gets passionate, he gets angry and he digs in harder against anybody that's trying to take away who he is and stays true to it. Call it corny or whatever, but the thing that pisses you off about John Cena is the same thing that in a lot of ways inspires me. It's easy to bend to the pressure to change it's much harder to stay true to who you are and I enjoy seeing someone doing that and inspiring others to do that as well. I relate to it by wanting to be able to do more of it and find more of that strength to do it myself more of the time.

And why does Cena make the most sense as "Mr. America" because he's a clean cut, hard working guy that through sheer determination took an opportunity and rose up to make the absolute most of it. Why's he Mr. America - look at his work with the fans, with the troops, all the things he does secondary to his career working his butt off and just go back and look at the promo he gave Paul Heyman about a month ago about all the people he does what he does for.

I agree with this from a ideological point of view, but I'm going to now ask you directly what I already spoke about earlier. If Rusev loses his undefeated streak to Cena, then they will have spent months building heel heat for a character just so he can finally lose ... to boos. The story will end on a bum note, because the elation that is supposed to come after building up a villain for this long, will be sacrificed. Most of the fans won't be happy. They won't get the climax they were hoping for.

Do you really think that doesn't matter? Do you still think Cena is the best choice to defeat Rusev, even though so many of the fans won't react to it in the way they're supposed to? Won't react to it in the manner that WWE will have spent almost a year preparing for? Do you not think the hate Cena receives matters at all?

If not, then I literally couldn't disagree with you more. At some point, why Cena's hated stops being the most important thing. The important thing is that he is hated and it's not something that can be ignored. Particularly given it's basically his entire character.

The bookers need to start acknowledging the boos in a way that's more productive than just having Cena point them out all the time.

To be frank on this point, I've stopped giving a damn or even noticing how half the crowd reacts to something because I've realized that they don't watch professional wrestling the same way those people do. What I'll care about is the result will excite me. It will make me mark for the moment, because to me the story is still the most important part.

I believe for me that the most enjoyable way to watch pro wrestling is to buy in. It's to care about the story they are telling and to play along with how they are expecting the crowd to react to a story. That doesn't mean I don't have my personal favorites or that I can't even appreciate the work of a particularly talented heel. I can appreciate it and I do, but while the match is going on rarely do I want to see them actually win.

[The Legend]

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

It wouldn't accomplish anything though? Sure they might have some interesting interactions the weeks leading up to the PPV but afterwards...that'd be it. At least if one of them faced a full-timer and put them over we've sort of got that and the match has accomplished something but to see two 90's part-timers facing each other sort of feels like a complete waste of my time, hence why I'd rather not see it. I don't have a problem with anyone who does though and were it to happen I'd get behind it because there's nothing that can be done but yeah...not for me.

I certainly don't think it's fair to say that anyone who doesn't want to see the match has a stick up their ass.

I think you are sort of missing the point of why the WWE does anything though. Their goal in anything they do is to sell as many tickets/PPV Buys as they possibly can for any particular event. Their goal is to put on a show that as many people as possible want to see and the name drawing power of HHH and the Rock alone helps that happen. This is particularly true of WrestleMania where it's their biggest showcase of all, they aren't particularly worried about the future at that moment, but the present.

There's a bit of a misguided trend nowadays where people confuse the fact it would be good business for WWE with the fact that it would be compelling/enjoyable to watch. I don't care how many Pay Per View buys something is going to get, that doesn't affect my enjoyment of anything.

It's all fair and well to understand the logic behind why WWE would do something but a lot of the time people hand wave bad TV with explaining the thought process of why they did it. I'm not particularly sure I'm making the point I mean to here or if it's the right place to do it but it's something do I notice on occasion.

I understand that and you aren't wrong, but when he says that the match wouldn't accomplish anything and would be pointless for the WWE to even consider it, that's wrong and it's worth pointing out what the actual point and why the WWE is considering it.

[prophet]

I don't think the match will be the best thing ever but I think it will be fun to watch and worthy of a spot at Wrestlemania. Like I said, it's completely fine to want to see younger guys get more of the spotlight and I want that too but I don't feel like this match would necessarily get in the way of that.

It wouldn't accomplish anything though? Sure they might have some interesting interactions the weeks leading up to the PPV but afterwards...that'd be it. At least if one of them faced a full-timer and put them over we've sort of got that and the match has accomplished something but to see two 90's part-timers facing each other sort of feels like a complete waste of my time, hence why I'd rather not see it. I don't have a problem with anyone who does though and were it to happen I'd get behind it because there's nothing that can be done but yeah...not for me.

I certainly don't think it's fair to say that anyone who doesn't want to see the match has a stick up their ass.

I think you are sort of missing the point of why the WWE does anything though. Their goal in anything they do is to sell as many tickets/PPV Buys as they possibly can for any particular event. Their goal is to put on a show that as many people as possible want to see and the name drawing power of HHH and the Rock alone helps that happen. This is particularly true of WrestleMania where it's their biggest showcase of all, they aren't particularly worried about the future at that moment, but the present.

There's a bit of a misguided trend nowadays where people confuse the fact it would be good business for WWE with the fact that it would be compelling/enjoyable to watch. I don't care how many Pay Per View buys something is going to get, that doesn't affect my enjoyment of anything.

It's all fair and well to understand the logic behind why WWE would do something but a lot of the time people hand wave bad TV with explaining the thought process of why they did it. I'm not particularly sure I'm making the point I mean to here or if it's the right place to do it but it's something do I notice on occasion.

I understand that and you aren't wrong, but when he says that the match wouldn't accomplish anything and would be pointless for the WWE to even consider it, that's wrong and it's worth pointing out what the actual point and why the WWE is considering it.

When did I say it would be pointless for the WWE to consider it? I completely understand your point about why the WWE does anything and that they think financially first and foremost, so yes financially Rock/HHH makes perfect sense and I get why they might like to pursue that match. That's fine, I don't have to agree or be pleased about it though.

[The Legend]

^^^ You don't have to like it, but again, to say it doesn't accomplish anything is inaccurate.

[SortaCreative]

It's easy booking though. Yes it might be entertaining. I'd watch, but it's the easy way out.

Instead of investing the time to actually book people properly and create a well rounded show they come to a situation where they need to make something extra special and for maybe 1 hour out of a month total they can build up to a 20min match between two vets and market the hell out of it on name recognition alone.

That's lazy.

Utterly lazy. And THAT'S the problem. This match represents everything that's going wrong.

[Str8Shooter]

It's easy booking though. Yes it might be entertaining. I'd watch, but it's the easy way out.

Instead of investing the time to actually book people properly and create a well rounded show they come to a situation where they need to make something extra special and for maybe 1 hour out of a month total they can build up to a 20min match between two vets and market the hell out of it on name recognition alone.

That's lazy.

Utterly lazy. And THAT'S the problem. This match represents everything that's going wrong.

You have a point about is being lazy and easy, but at the same time, it's only one match on a 4 hour card that will likely have 8-10 matches. Ideally they could, and should, still be able to craft a card with the remaining 3 hours and 40 minutes that could make it a well rounded card that features something for everyone.

[SortaCreative]

that features something for everyone.

I think you stumbled upon a massive problem there Brett.

[Str8Shooter]

that features something for everyone.

I think you stumbled upon a massive problem there Brett.

How so? You don't think they should have something for everyone?

It would not be that hard to do it. Have Rock vs Triple H for the casuals and older viewers, have something like Daniel Bryan vs Cesaro, Wyatt, Rollins, Ambrose, etc, for the smark faithful.