Brady suspended four games, Pats lose draft picks, fined $1 million dollars

[DBSoT]

Patriots history of breaking rules all the way back to Spygate

Spygate happened almost 10 years ago. What rules have they been accused of breaking since then?

It was still the same coach and adminstration in place during spygate. They have also been accused of using illegal formations, creating faulty injury reports, and were alledge to have stolen a play book at one point (granted this one is a bit flimsy). They have two offenses that ended in major violations (spygate and Ballgazi). Again these aren't major offenses, but the NFL did see them as a repeat offender.

[DBSoT]

Spygate wasn't and still isn't that big of a deal.

Spying on an opponents practice is absolutely a major deal. There is a reason its considered one of the biggest no no's in football.

[Messiah]

Spying on an opponents practice is absolutely a major deal.

That is not what they did.

[Everlong]

They have also been accused of using illegal formations

If you're referring to the game against the Ravens, they weren't illegal at all at the time they were used. They have since been made illegal because the Ravens bitched so much.

creating faulty injury report

If anything, the Patriots have been overly forthcoming on their injury reports. Every player that's slightly banged up goes on the report.

stolen a play book at one point (granted this one is a bit flimsy).

Yeah I'm pretty sure that was debunked.

[War Daddy]

if anyone cares I'll just leave this here.

www.yourteamcheats.com

[The Legend]

Well, this thread blew up while I was working yesterday, so let’s address a few points. First, @Everlong and everyone else saying that what they did was such a minor infraction that it doesn’t make an impact on the game and it’s a heavy penalty for something that “doesn’t matter”. I need you to answer this question for me before we continue this debate. It’s a question that has been side-stepped and ignored in all three threads we’ve had on this topic and it needs to stop now. If deflating footballs doesn’t help Tom Brady, why then did the Patriots have a system of giving the balls to the refs and then have a ball boy go into a locked room with the balls (something that has been unequivocally proven by videotaped evidence) where they return 1-2 psi lighter than they were when they went into that locked room? Why would they have a system to skirt monitoring if they didn’t think they were breaking a rule and why would Tom Brady and the Patriots break a rule that doesn’t help them have a better chance for victory? I mean if you would risk violating a rule and being caught and you didn’t think it helped give you an edge of some kind in competition, well that just makes you galactically stupid. Do you think Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are galactically stupid? Because I don’t.

Also, I really don’t understand this line about not having truly conclusive evidence. The Wells report showed us all 256 pages of footballs being underinflated, team employees communications that amount to conspiracy to commit the violation and Tom Brady evading investigators and refusing to turn over his phone because it had incriminating evidence on it. Let’s not forget, Wells doesn’t have subpoena power to collect evidence the way a normal prosecutor would in a trial. Because of that you can’t expect to have the same level of burden as in a criminal case.

Beyond that, “more probable than not” is a powerful phrase in the legal world. It carries the same weight in a civil lawsuit as “beyond a reasonable doubt” does in a criminal matter. That is the threshold the prosecution needs to get to for a lawsuit to go against a defendant. That matters, that is the exact language in the CBA and league rules for violations about fairness of play.

Beyond that, I would say the mountain of evidence against the Patriots is conclusive. Look at it this way, are you looking for a video of Tom Brady sticking a needle in a football? If you are your level of conclusive is way too high. A lot of people commit murder. Very few of them commit murder on video tape. Are the only murder victims that deserve to have their killers punished those that get caught on video tape?

@Alpha Beast We aren’t going to forget about the Browns texting the sidelines. Ray Farmer is serving the same suspension as Tom Brady for breaking league rules. The team and Farmer were also fined, just like the Patriots. And unlike the Patriots, they didn’t do what they did in the name of winning. In fact it was the exact opposite. Farmer was undermining his coaching staff and questioning why his horrible rookie QB wasn’t on the field yet.

We aren’t going to forget about the Jets “tampering”, they were fined.

We aren’t going to forget about the Panthers heating up balls, they were penalized.

You’ll have to familiarize me with the Broncos situation because I’ve never heard about it.

It’s also important to remember this, in those instances you mention there’s a difference between the Patriots and all the other teams. The other teams were completely forthright with the NFL about their violations. They owned it and admitted it. The Patriots are being penalized not only for their rules violations, but also for the cover up. In their typical Patriot smug arrogance, they denied everything. They hid from the NFL. They destroyed or kept evidence secret.

Bottom line, if you admit to what you’ve done and cop to a plea deal, the penalty is always less than if you stubbornly hold to your innocence to the bitter end when your guilt is proven.

As for Aaron Rodgers or any other quarterback, none of the other quarterbacks have been caught red handed. So that’s why the scandal isn’t as big. However, I would agree that if Rodgers or any other quarterback admits to willfully breaking the rules, they deserve the same punishment Brady has received. So sure, if the Packers overinflate balls then Rodgers should miss the first four games of the season. Where did we go wrong and when did it become so hard in our world to expect people to follow the letter of the law? To me that’s the greatest failing of our society.

It doesn’t matter that Spygate was 10 years ago, all the key players in the scandals are the same. Kraft, Belichick, Brady. They were all responsible 10 years ago and they all hold the power and the responsibility today in this scandal. Remember in Bountygate – something which Tim applauded the commissioner for slamming the Saints – Goodell told everyone, ignorance isn’t an excuse. It’s the owner, GM and coach’s responsibility to know what happens in his organization and make sure their team and all of its members and support staff is following all of the rules. The Patriots clearly fell out of line of that.

And now, the Patriots aren’t “overly forthcoming” in injury reports. It’s clear what they do, they hide the true injuries among a mountain of minutia of fake injuries and unimportant details that clearly violate the rules and the spirit of the mandatory injury reports.

I’ll leave this post with one final note. It’s time for the NFL to fix this very easy to close loophole. It’s time for NFL teams to lose the responsibility of preparing the footballs. The league office should prepare each and every football for each and every game exactly the same way. Forget a range, they should all start every game at exactly 13 psi. They should all be worn in exactly the same way. That will give us a true indication of who the best players and teams are throughout the league. Totally levelling the playing field between everyone.

[Messiah]

They should all be worn in exactly the same way. That will give us a true indication of who the best players and teams are throughout the league. Totally levelling the playing field between everyone.

Lol yes, the psi of the footballs is what is preventing us from knowing this stuff now.

[Taveus]

if anyone cares I'll just leave this here.

http://www.yourteamcheats.com

Thoroughly enjoyed that link. Nice to know my Bengals are towards the bottom. Also nice to see that Denver and Shitsburgh are at the top.

[The Legend]

They should all be worn in exactly the same way. That will give us a true indication of who the best players and teams are throughout the league. Totally levelling the playing field between everyone.

Lol yes, the psi of the footballs is what is preventing us from knowing this stuff now.

I don't see what's so funny about wanting everyone in a sport to play with identical basic equipment.

[The Legend]

LOL. Patriots now claiming McNally was called the deflator because he was trying to lose weight. They just don't know when to stop. The cover up is always worse than the crime.

[Everlong]

http://wellsreportcontext.com/

GAUNTLET HAS BEEN THROWN DOWN

[The Legend]

So much for accepting whatever punishment they have coming to them. Just another thing they lied about.

[Everlong]

From reddit:

Mr. Anderson’s recollections are adopted by the investigators for the pre-game psi numbers. His recollection that he used the Logo gauge pre-game is the premise of the investigators’ justification for League officials not reinflating Colts footballs at halftime. But his recollection of which gauge he used pre-game is rejected when assessing the psi drop for the Patriots footballs. There is no rationale for this flip-flopping on whether Mr. Anderson’s recollections were correct. And it is clear that the investigators, not happy with his recollections on this point, pushed the issue so he would state that, despite his best recollection, it was “possible” he used the other gauge. (pg. 52).

"And this is why Patriots fans are upset with the Wells Report - it contradicts itself in order to fit its conclusion.
Using ONLY the Logo Gauge, the Patriots balls were easily explained by science. They use the logo gauge for the Colts balls at halftime, but use the NON-Logo gauge for the Patriots."

"First of all, this is what should have been plastered all over news sites:

Wells alleges that the Patriots' balls were intentionally deflated by at most 0.4 psi. Nowhere close to the 2 psi drop in 11 balls that Mort originally reported. On the day after the AFCCG, if he instead wrote that league suspects that balls had lost 0.4 psi of air pressure, I think this entire issue would have quietly died.

0.4 psi is equivalent to like two pumps of air. An 8F change in temperature causes a 0.4 psi change in pressure. A tenth of a psi measurement error here, another tenth there, slight release of pressure when inserting needles, a slight change in atmospheric pressure, slight change in humidity, added wetness of the ball, Blount carrying the ball a few times, and a 2 degree change in temperature could all work together to produce a greater effect than the alleged 0.4 psi deflation.

ESPN Sport Science showed that a 2 psi drop would result in balls that compress less than a millimeter under a firm grip. In the Pats' tests, Garoppolo could not reliably distinguish between balls with a 2 psi difference, and could not even venture a guess when given balls separated by 1 psi. The alleged deflation here is an order of magnitude beneath even that. It's not humanly perceptible.

On its face, the magnitude that we're discussing is too small to draw any sort of conclusions given the volatility of environmental factors and questions about measurement accuracy.

Let's suppose I take your wallet to the bathroom and then return it to you.

"Hey, that guy robbed me!"

"Ok well how much is missing from your wallet?"

"Um I don't know, maybe a dollar, but I can't be sure. But who cares, arrest him!"

It doesn't matter how suggestive the text messages are, if you can't show with a high degree of scientific certainty that the balls were in fact deflated, then you can't conclude with fair certainty that McNally deflated them, and you definitely can't conclude that Brady was probably "generally aware" of the deflation.

Other major issues:

Accusation relies entirely on the recollection of a non-expert (Walt Anderson) of the precise air pressure of 48 football to the tenth of a psi.

Anderson has every reason to overstate how properly he handled the pregame inspection, especially after he screwed the pooch by losing track of game balls before the game (for the first time in his 19 year career, allegedly), and allowing them into the game rather than switching to contingency balls even though he was tipped off by the Colts/NFL to be on alert.

Anderson is not sure which of two gauges he used to measure balls during inspection. These gauges were later found to provide readings that consistently differ by 0.4 psi, which also happens to be exactly how much Wells' claims that Pats removed from their balls. Anderson believes he used the higher gauge, whose readings on the Pats' balls at halftime are basically consistent with Wells' own ideal gas law range. Nevertheless, Wells decides to overrule Anderson's recollection on this one issue, and concludes that Anderson must have in fact used the lower gauge in the pregame.

Wells says that regardless of which gauge was used, Pats' balls were consistent with the ideal gas law if measured in minutes 0-4 of halftime. But based on nothing more than conjecture, he asserts that the balls were actually measured in minutes 2-6 and therefore are not in allowable range. His whole fucking argument rests on minutes 0-4 vs 2-6.

Officials reinflated Pats balls to 13.0 at halftime, but found that they had inflated on their own to roughly 13.5 in the postgame. How can Pats be held responsible for maintaining the pressure of their balls to within 0.4 psi when the officials themselves could not do it when they specifically endeavored to do so?"

[Everlong]

Basically, it's 100 percent clear that Goodell is using the Patriots as an example without really having a leg to stand on. And it's not the first time he's done it.

Also, the Colts broke the rules by taking the matter into their own hands and having an issue gauge the balls without bringing the issue to the referee, as is mandated. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE? WHERE ARE THE PUNISHMENTS?!?!?!?! HOW CAN WE ALLOW THEM TO MAKE SUCH A MOCKERY OF OUR SPORT?

[Everlong]

After he walked past all of these League officials and out the door of the Officials’ Locker Room to the hallway, he then walked past James Daniel, an NFL official and one of the people who had been alerted to the Colts psi concerns pre-game (pg. 45). Mr. Daniel, as seen on the security video, looked at Mr. McNally carrying the bags of footballs toward the field unaccompanied by any League or game official, and made no objection to Mr. McNally continuing unaccompanied to the field.

So the security video shows the officials watching McNally leave, and not a single one of them tells him to stop.

Even after halftime, when obvious attention was being paid to game footballs and psi issues by League and game officials, who took control of the footballs at halftime, the security video shows Mr. McNally, with no objection, taking the footballs from the Officials’ Locker Room back to the field totally unaccompanied by any League or Game official.

THEN AFTER HALFTIME HE DOES THE SAME THING AND NO ONE SAYS A WORD.

And you want to know why?

Because nobody has ever, EVER given a single fuck about PSI in footballs before the Colts decided to bitch about it. And nobody would have given it a second thought if it was anyone OTHER than the Patriots.

[Everlong]

Personally I love the fact that the Patriots are standing up for their player, and that they're actually calling the NFL out on its bullshit. Even if nothing comes of it, it's about time someone with actual power in the league called out Goodell for using situations like this as ways to arbitrarily take a stand and make an example of a team when he refuses to do it for issues that ACTUALLY FUCKING MATTER

[War Daddy]

So much for accepting whatever punishment they have coming to them. Just another thing they lied about.

They would accept the punishment, if it was even remotely fitting to the supposed crime.

[The Legend]

I'll ask another question, even though I don't know why I bother since no one actually answers any of the questions I ask. It's just blind Patriot ass kissing around these parts. If the Patriots and none of their employees did anything wrong and all this deflation just happened naturally and not as a bigger cover up, why then did THEY and not the LEAGUE indefinitely suspend (read: fire) McNally and Jastremski? If nothing improper was done they shouldn't be being punished. Oh wait they are just scapegoats to hid the real masterminds of the plot that Bob Kraft continues to abuse his employees least capable of speaking out.

[The Legend]

So much for accepting whatever punishment they have coming to them. Just another thing they lied about.

They would accept the punishment, if it was even remotely fitting to the supposed crime.

It's perfectly in fitting with Tom Brady's many crimes against the NFL. The report showed a pattern of repeatedly breaking the rules - not just one game. Brady has repeatedly after being caught lied his ass off. And when brought in for investigation Brady hid and denied access to the evidence.

He's not just getting punished for the elaborate conspiracy to routinely break league rules, but also for the extensive plot of covering up his crimes to try and save his reputation. The cover up always adds punishment to a sentence when you are found guilty.

[Everlong]

If the Patriots and none of their employees did anything wrong and all this deflation just happened naturally and not as a bigger cover up, why then did THEY and not the LEAGUE indefinitely suspend (read: fire) McNally and Jastremski?

PR 101. They had to do SOMETHING or the league would come down on them even harder.

It's perfectly in fitting with Tom Brady's many crimes against the NFL.

Hahahah what?! What crimes has Tom Brady committed against the NFL?