Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

[Messiah]

[Messiah]

Lets be real.

Who is Beck?

[Locke]

He's a loser baby, so why don't you kill him?

[Everlong]

[Hanley!]

Jesus, why is it so hard to accept that Kanye is a good artist who's kind of a douche? He doesn't have to be a saint, or a musical genius. He's one of the most prominent and influential artists today, is that not enough?

This thread is giving me a headache.

You're not alone.

To be honest, the Kanye fans are doing him a disservice. He really doesn't make my kind of music, so I avoid listening to him whenever possible. But I would be willing to accept the premise that he's an amazing and inspirational artist in his genre ... if his fans didn't sound like such idiots whenever they're talking about him.

If people who are fans of his music, just said that he's a spectacular artist but he's also a huge tool, I'd respect that. And I'd find it a lot easier to accept the first half of the sentence, knowing as I do that the second half of the sentence is extremely true.

And him being an advocate for certain good causes does not automatically make him a good person, and it certainly doesn't make him beyond reproach. It just makes him a person that supports certain good causes. History is littered with figures who supported wonderful causes, but were monsters in their personal lives. Trying to act like Kanye is beyond reproach because of his activism is absurd. Are active feminists beyond criticism too then? An equally absurd notion, but not one that's ever been suggested or hinted at on this forum.

I've probably made this point before, but I'm going to make it again just to set a good example: Mike Patton is the lead singer of Faith No More, Mr Bungle, Tomahawk, Fantomas, Peeping Tom and others. He's had a huge number of side projects and collaborations, he's worked in just about every genre there is, has made his voice do things that seem almost inhuman. He's a musical genius and has recorded some of the best music I've ever heard. And he's a cunt.

It's really not that hard a thing to do, guys. Give it a try.



Oh, and as for the artistry debate, of course Beck is a better artist than Beyoncé. And Elvis for that matter. Elvis is a bigger star and might have performed better music, but artistry is about creating art. 'Creating' being the important word. An artist creates. When Kanye used that particular word to try and explain why the Grammys had made the wrong choice, he was talking out of his ass.

artistry

noun
creative skill or ability.

Example: "the artistry of the pianist"
synonyms: creative skill, creativity, art, skill, ability, accomplishment, talent, genius, brilliance, expertness, flair, proficiency, virtuosity, finesse, style, touch, expressiveness, perception, sensitivity, inspiration, poetry, eloquence

Boom.

[Kyle]

I can accept that Kanye is a great artist. I just cannot under any circumstances accept anybody defending his actions at the Grammys. Saying Beck needs to respect artistry and should have given the award to Beyonce is completely arrogant and classless. It should have been Beck's moment to shine and yet Kanye stole all the spotlight.

[Daz]

God damn you Hanley, stop making the same points as me and doing it better. You're making me look bad.

[Messiah]

I did misspeak on the artistry part admittedly. Still, at the end of the day, it is Best Album. Beck being a better artist is irrelevant to who deserves that award because the final product is what matters the most, not how you got there. For as many songwriters, producers, etc. Beyonce may have had helping her, it doesn't matter. If people, and there were a lot of them, think Beyonce deserved to win over Beck, well then they have a good argument. And the other way around too.

By the way, to clarify, 'Ye is an asshole and probably the most egotistical man in the music industry. I just don't really care that he is, mainly because I love the music that he puts out.

[War Daddy]

Kanye West's life has better storyline than the WWE.

[The Legend]

I did misspeak on the artistry part admittedly. Still, at the end of the day, it is Best Album. Beck being a better artist is irrelevant to who deserves that award because the final product is what matters the most, not how you got there. For as many songwriters, producers, etc. Beyonce may have had helping her, it doesn't matter. If people, and there were a lot of them, think Beyonce deserved to win over Beck, well then they have a good argument. And the other way around too.

By the way, to clarify, 'Ye is an asshole and probably the most egotistical man in the music industry. I just don't really care that he is, mainly because I love the music that he puts out.

I can agree with everything you posted here.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

Dear christ that's stretching. The word subtle and Kanye West should never be uttered in the same breath. I did listen to his album, and it was fine. Although I found it to be thematically heavy handed and lacking any real substance. One thing that strikes me, is that it's all well and good claiming racial intolerance, talking about being slaves to the industry and all the other bullshit, but when you can't resist dropping in lines about the fancy cars you drive or the expensive mink coat you're trying not to ejaculate on, it kind of muddies your point. Also, let's examine lyrically the theme you claim he's trying to portray…

Oh that's stretching? Here's one of the rappers that worked on the album breaking down the meaning of the album:

The Georgia-bred rapper said that 'Ye was going to stick to his no-media policy and would just deliver the message himself. "A lot of people don't know Yeezus if you break it down is: 'Ye-Is-us," CyHi told MTV News.

"I'll break it down to you because I don't care. 'Ye will let you sit there and beat yourself up about it," he added. "He ain't gonna do no interviews. He gonna be like, 'Yeah it's Yeezus and that's what it's called and y'all gotta deal with it.'"

CyHi was present during much of the recording process for Yeezus, and is credited on nine out of the ten songs present on the album. But he assures he's no ghostwriter.

"I'm just in there with him, keeping him up, keeping the environment in the room. That's like one of my jobs I feel like, because they ask me to do it," CyHi said. "We wrote a booklet of different things that could be put in here. The bible just wasn't wrote by Jesus. Inspirations came from everywhere that put this whole thing together."

source: http://www.vibe.com/article/yeezus-defi ... album-name

Also one of the producers of the album revealed the meaning behind the song you're trying to complain about.



So yeah, not really a stretch at all.

I am a god
Hurry up with my damn massage
Hurry up with my damn ménage
Get the Porsche out the damn garage
I am a god

Let's be honest with ourselves. His nickname is Yeezy and Yeezus rhymes with Jesus. That's why he named his album that. Any attempt to find deeper meaning in that is just absolute bullshit and a way to save face after negative PR backlash. Let's have a look at a quote like this, in response to the song title "I Am God"

Nope. First of all why would Kanye or anyone can about PR when this album was anti commercial and had no single at all? Kanye didn't even do interviews for this album for well over a couple of months and by then he was already certified Gold and his album was critically acclaimed. You really think Kanye cares about backlash when it comes to his artistry? He knew the backlash was going to come because people would miss the point of the album and take it out of context like you just did.

First of all, you're quoting the song "I Am A God" but you're taking it out of context with the album. After the song, I Am A God, he follows it up with New Slaves which is a song that addresses consumerism, materialism, classism, racism. The reason why the song New Slaves comes on right after I Am A God is to juxtapose the materialistic mindset of someone to someone who is aware of his surroundings. So the album tells you a story, a very subtle one but there's definitely a story being told. Let's not try to discredit Kanye because his track record shows he has a history of paying attention to every detail in music, sonically and lyrically.

His music has constantly had double meanings behind it his entire career so it's not a reach to mention subtle and Kanye's music in the same sentence.

That's obnoxious, race baiting bollocks. There's no way to respond to that, without coming across poorly. He's backing the interviewer into a corner, to push an agenda against himself, that nobody was thinking to begin with. Nobody wants to oppress Kanye West, nobody fucking could if they did. He's married to a gelatinous fucking replicant devoid of human emotion nobody can escape. I wind up hearing news stories about them as a couple almost every day of my sodding life, despite going out of my way to avoid it, and I hear his sodding music all the time. He's everywhere, an fair play to him, he had the talent to make it happen. But to call yourself a god is just fucking obnoxious. I don't even believe in god and I think it's a silly thing to do. To put yourself over to the degree he does, is fucking beyond a joke, and whether you're a fan or you aren't, you should have the good sense to see that.

Yes being self confident and having a high self esteem is such a bad thing to have.

By the way Eminem has called himself a God (and Satan as well).

Jay-Z calls himself a God.

There's tons of metal bands that've compared themselves to God or Satan. John Lennon said his band was bigger than Jesus. Kanye is just following up on a trend in music that's existed and adding a concept to it.

He's also drawing on the very racial stereotypes he addresses in "New Slaves" when he says the labels of "ganster", "nigger" and "pimp" fit a person like him better. He's perpetuating the very fucking thing he defames in the damn song. Which is kind of defeating the bloody point isn't it? Also, if you dress like a pimp in every music video you ever produce, reference violence and the cosa nostra like a gangster, and say nigger every third line of every song you put out ... you're kind of inviting it on yourself. Frankly I think the labels "pretentious cunt", "egotistical wanker", and "dickhead" fit him better, but then again, I'm just a white guy with no racial agenda against anyone to push, or an album with a controversial title to sell. So what do I know?

LOL, what does dressing a pimp mean? Wearing Ralph Lauren clothing is dressing like a pimp now? Designing and wearing clothes for Louis Vuttion is considered dressing like a pimp now? I guess wearing Nike and Adidas means I'm dressing like a pimp as well since Kanye wears those brands.

Kanye's never glorified violence ever in his career. Like one of the main reasons he is as big as he is today is because his music was literally the exact opposite of hip hop at that time. He didn't glorify drug dealing or violence, he raised awareness on those issues and told people to chase their dreams instead of dealing drugs or killing people.

Is it genocide?
Cause I can still hear his mama cry
Know the family traumatized
Shots left holes in his face about piranha-sized
The old pastor closed the cold casket
And said the church ain’t got enough room for all the tombs
It’s a war going on outside we ain’t safe from
I feel the pain in my city wherever I go
314 soldiers died in Iraq, 509 died in Chicago

Yeah man, Kanye is such a violent guy, raising awareness about the alarming murder rate in his city must mean he is such a gangster.

And to your last point, if you don't know the difference between "nigger" vs. "nigga" and what the latter means in the context of hip hop, please look it up cause that's way too deep of an issue I'm not going to get into because it has nothing to do with the original topic at hand.

Lastly, your opinion of Kanye being an "asshole" is subjective. It's clear that a lot of people don't know much about what he has done OUTSIDE of his music, what he has done for communities, and who he truly is as a person. I've been following his career for 10 years so I understand every move that he makes and if you prefer PR puppets that purposely dumb down society with their music, that's cool, I prefer a honest guy who pushes a generation forward.

Also back to the original topic being the Grammys not respecting artist and not rewarding the right people the right awards. That's it. Grammys don't respect musicians because if they did, Kendrick Lamar would've won all the Grammys he was nominated for last year. If they respected musicians, Mumford and Sons wouldn't have won Album of the Year in 2013 over Frank Ocean, The Black Keys, and Jack White. There's many more examples but I'll just leave it at this.

I really got nothing left to say. You can keep replying if you want but I've already said my peace and if you have any more rebuttals, you should get a understanding of what he is truly is about rather than resort to headlines on magazine papers and 2-3 television incidents.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

post that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/lewronggeneration/

[Romo]

bite bite bite

[Everlong]

Jesus christ

[Daz]

I'm not gonna quote by quote respond to you Danielson because I've already wasted too much of my time on this argument, and also because their are topics that we can fall into that I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole.

I will say, the arguments in response to the album title have done little to alter my opinion. Naming a song or album title after a psalm, whether before or after the fact, is still arrogant if you alter the quote to read "I am God" ... The fact other bands and artists have done it, doesn't make Kanye infallible. It makes them equally fucking stupid. Lennon claiming the Beatles were bigger than Jesus annoys me just as much. I also happen to think Lennon was pretentious as hell as well and I'm not an overly big fan of the Beatles, if that means anything to you. Also, how in the hell does Yeezus translate to Ye-Is-Us ... again that's a stretch I'm not seeing. And guess what, Ye Is Us doesn't mean anything. If by using the Kanye method of logic, we break it down. Ye is Us, Ye is Kanye's nickname, and apparently he is a God (open to debate), therefore we are all gods. The flaw here is he's still calling himself a God. Ergo, fucking stupid.

Also, why would he want to downplay negative PR for the album title? For exactly the bloody reasons you pointed out. He wasn't doing singles, he wasn't doing media, and if people start kicking up a stink, I think quite a few people who stand to make some money out of this thing, might want to soften some stances to sell some albums prior to the release. It happens all the fucking time in every form of entertainment. Someone criticizes something on line, people in charge try to explain it away to save face. Let's not pretend Kanye West is above that.

I'm not a huge Kanye fan, I don't follow Hip-Hop or Rap religiously. The only way I found out he was calling the album Yeezus is because of the negative criticism he got for it to begin with. So let's not act like there wasn't any. Whether it be religious folk upset at the Jesus rhyme or people who just thought it was silly, that was pretty much the prevailing talk before the album was released. The fact people liked the album and it received acclaim after the release is absolutely beyond the point. So yes for me, the justification of the name/song title is still absolutely a stretch.

Yeah, I quoted I am God, and yes it was followed by New Slaves, with such lyrical gold as...

You see there's leaders and there's followers
But I'd rather be a dick than a swallower

I'm very away of the story he's telling. It's not subtle in the slightest, I'm being slapped in the face with it (news flash - saying nigger and slaves a lot doesn't a point make), which is why I said I found the album thematically heavy handed. It's one thing to juxtapose two thing against another, but in this case, it's comes across as schizophrenic at best. You can't brag about all the fancy shit you have and claim yourself to be a god damn deity and then in the very next song cry oppression (both racial and social class - especially social class, when you're a multi millionaire, married to a multi millionaire, who is part of a family of multi millionaires). As I said, it muddies your point. And we already had a thread a while back about New Slaves, and I said everything I needed to say about the contents of that song there.

And as far as you taking the high and mighty stand, claiming to understand every move the guy makes and that I should look beyond media headlines ... royally fuck you good sir. You've literally done nothing but pluck headlines and tweets and throw award statistics in everyone's face to back up your claims. You're doing exactly the same thing I've done, because guess what? you don't know the guy either, you don't know what he's thinking, all you know is what you're told ... the same as the bloody rest of us. Nobody here has once disputed the things he's done for communities, or that the fact he's encouraged kids to follow their dreams. Good for him, it's nice to do good things. But when you continually act like a dickhead in the public eye, is it a by wonder that the positive things you do, get overshadowed and people think you're a tool? The fact you can argue that jumping up on stage when someone else is winning an award, whether you think they deserved it or not, isn't a dickhead thing to do, is baffling to me. IT WAS ALSO THE SECOND TIME HE'S DONE IT!

And as far as insulting me, and implying I'd prefer "PR puppets that purposely dumb down society with their music" ... I don't recall ever addressing my own personal music taste in this thread. If you look at my recently played in Itunes, you'll find a Biffy Clyro album and the soundtrack to Singin' in the Rain ... neither of which fall into that category frankly. My favourite band is Led Zeppelin, and I'll bring them up, because I'm quite capable of admitting their faults, something you seem unable to do. I know full well they stole the intro to one of their most famous songs from Taurus. They ripped off countless blues songs, taking both riffs and lyrics. I don't feel the need to defend them with nonsensical arguments as if someone will pop up and revoke my Led Zep fan club card if I don't. And also, I'd really like to hear what "Bound 2" contributes to society as a whole. Nothing is the answer to that, unless reminding us he's banging a bird with a giant ass is contributing to society.

And seeing as I've wound up doing what I didn't want to do, I'll address the Grammy's thing too. The artistry thing, wasn't the original topic at all. That came up because Kanye was once again talking out of his ass, even if the point he was ultimately trying to make, has some merit. He just chose to make it about absolutely the wrong person, and rightfully got torn to shreds for it. I hate award shows, like the Oscars, the Grammy's etc. etc. because it's all absolutely subjective. There's always someone that gets slighted, that's the nature of the thing.

Of course my opinion is just that, opinion. So is as yours. Neither of us is right or wrong in this argument, but the fact you seem to think Kayne, and indeed yourself by proxy, infallible, says a lot more about you than it does me.

[SortaCreative]

Daz stop talking about Kanye West and go finish editing your novel. Now.

[Daz]

Daz stop talking about Kanye West and go finish editing your novel. Now.

Yes sir.