Game of Thrones Season 5 spoiler chat

[Everlong]

All I remember is Barristan, what the fuck were they thinking?

Yeah, I REALLY don't understand the decision to kill him off in the show when he's still playing a pretty big role in the books. Grenn and Pyp, I understand that decision. But Barristan, wtf?

[prophet]

All I remember is Barristan, what the fuck were they thinking?

Yeah, I REALLY don't understand the decision to kill him off in the show when he's still playing a pretty big role in the books. Grenn and Pyp, I understand that decision. But Barristan, wtf?

Yeah I was pissed when that happened. Was certain Grey Worm was going to die and Barristan would run out of time before he could save him. I did like the surprise of not knowing but after his tales about Rhaegar in that genuinely sweet moment with Dany I was gutted to see him die. Tyrion, Jorah and potentially Varys are heading to her though so her group of mentors needed thinning I guess.

Barristan's tales of Rhaegar coupled with Littlefinger's comical musing to Sansa's horror story seemed to be the first real evidence supporting the R+L=J theory which was cool.

Continuing to really enjoy the Kings Landing stuff this season. Margeary's utter coldness to poor Tommen was such a wonderful contrast to last season when she was playing nice, I love that Cersei has gotten rid of both Loras and Mace in one swoop (I fully expect Loras to be executed soon, he's hardly important) but I was intrigued to see that they mentioned bringing Olenna back to the capital.

Stannis' scene with Shireen was beautiful, gave us another side to the character that was much needed. 'MON THE MANNIS! Jon turning down Melisandre was a well done scene for what it was but it reminded me of Gendry, the fuck is he?

I also reckon Bronn will die this season too, because he's another character that doesn't really hold much importance despite being one we all like. So yeah, on the theme of deaths that don't happen in the books I think Loras, Bronn and maybe Pod are for the off.

[Hanley!]

Are we sure that Barristan is dead? Might be that he's just in bad shape, he could have survived. Seems like Greyworm at least saved him from what was obviously the killing blow, but his wounds could still be bad enough to see him dead. Won't know until next week anyway.

I find it funny how stupid Cersei is sometimes, while thinking that she's smart. She's always outmaneuvering others by making moves that are bound to fuck her over in the long term. Getting Loras locked up is just spiteful. She probably thinks she's gotten one over on Margaery, and she'd be right, but she's not benefiting from it either. There was always tension there, but this could completely shatter the relationship with the Tyrells and without them, the throne will be vulnerable. Their grasp on it is already tenuous at best.

It feels like she's always making these bold moves and thinking "bet you never thought I'd do that, you muppets", while everyone else is thinking "this woman is insane". Cersei is a great villain. And Lena Headey is one of the finest actors in the show.

[UTK]

Are we sure that Barristan is dead? Might be that he's just in bad shape, he could have survived.

Seems pretty dead on that table to me.

[Daz]

They're gonna have to kill off more characters than the book, or they'll blow the budget just paying the cast lol.

Also, they've set a fairly high precedent, especially after the Red Wedding, of killing off main characters. There's not a whole lot of big deaths on the horizon, so they've gotta bump off some of the more minor ones just to keep pace. That's my view on it anyway.

[SlightlyJames]

Barristan the Bold is anything but minor, yo. There's plenty of guys who could be dying right now but they just haven't cast them! No Quentyn, no Oakheart, Balon has apparently disappeared into nothingness, etc.

[UTK]

I'm really annoyed at the end of tonight's episode. How much can they fucking torture Sansa? This decision makes no sense. Sometimes I think the writers just want to shock viewers instead of making any decisions that actually make sense. This completely neglects her character development. Back to being the victim. And in a truly disgusting scene, might I add. Yeah, this isn't the worst scene ever filmed for the show, but the fact that this happened to Sansa made it ten times worse.

What annoys me the most is how this is the complete opposite of her TWOW arc. This just makes me more excited for TWOW, where we can see Sansa be a normal fucking human again and not tortured over and over for shock value.

[SlightlyJames]

I'm really annoyed at the end of tonight's episode. How much can they fucking torture Sansa? This decision makes no sense. Sometimes I think the writers just want to shock viewers instead of making any decisions that actually make sense. This completely neglects her character development. Back to being the victim. And in a truly disgusting scene, might I add. Yeah, this isn't the worst scene ever filmed for the show, but the fact that this happened to Sansa made it ten times worse.

What annoys me the most is how this is the complete opposite of her TWOW arc. This just makes me more excited for TWOW, where we can see Sansa be a normal fucking human again and not tortured over and over for shock value.

I haven't watched it yet but it's not entirely surprising, she's filling in for fake Arya and she got a pretty rough time of it. I guess on one hand it will make Theon's redemption a little more worthwhile, it'll make it a lot more understandable for Jon wanting to march south as well.

[Kirbi]

I'm really annoyed at the end of tonight's episode. How much can they fucking torture Sansa? This decision makes no sense. Sometimes I think the writers just want to shock viewers instead of making any decisions that actually make sense. This completely neglects her character development. Back to being the victim. And in a truly disgusting scene, might I add. Yeah, this isn't the worst scene ever filmed for the show, but the fact that this happened to Sansa made it ten times worse.

What annoys me the most is how this is the complete opposite of her TWOW arc. This just makes me more excited for TWOW, where we can see Sansa be a normal fucking human again and not tortured over and over for shock value.

I haven't watched it yet but it's not entirely surprising, she's filling in for fake Arya and she got a pretty rough time of it. I guess on one hand it will make Theon's redemption a little more worthwhile, it'll make it a lot more understandable for Jon wanting to march south as well.

Christ, I was more resigned than pissed off when I watched it, but if they have Sansa's rape be about someone other than her, they can fuck right off.

[Everlong]

Yeah, I'm also on the side of people who are flabbergasted at the Sansa decision. Like, this is a HUGE change from the direction of the books first of all. I have no problem with them taking liberties with cutting thigns out and making minor changes here and there, but this is a HUGE change from the trajectory of one of the story's biggest characters.

This is also, from what I've read, the third time a major female character has been raped on the show when she wasn't raped in the books. Just... what?

And of course, with Sansa's story arc, the decision just makes no sense at all. I really don't get it.

[Everlong]

Also, the Sand Snakes are so fucking bad.

[SortaCreative]

What annoys me the most is how this is the complete opposite of her TWOW arc. This just makes me more excited for TWOW, where we can see Sansa be a normal fucking human again and not tortured over and over for shock value.

I don't think we read the same books.

Sansa has had a rough time since day one.

[prophet]

I remember seeing an interview with Sophie Turner in the build up to this season where she mentioned her favourite scenes to shoot are the traumatic ones and that she had her most traumatic this season. I guess I should've put two and two together when her plot went this way but man was that tough to watch. I'm not nearly as pissed off as most people though - I've enjoyed Sansa's plot more than any other so far this season and I do think all the shit she's gone through will be come back around eventually...it has too right? Ramsay Bolton has cemented himself as the most evil fuck in television and I can't wait for the day Theon eventually snaps and redeems himself in Sansa's eyes.

Book spoilers

Spoiler:

That said I think this season might end with Ramsay's letter to the Wall and Jon's march to Winterfell. I can totally see the final shot of the season being Alliser Thorne or Samwell plunging the blade into Jon before the screen cuts to black, what are your early predictions? (Bear in mind I'm a man who genuinely held hope that Stoneheart might still appear three weeks ago)

Completely agree that the Sand Snakes are shit. Infamous warriors and all three of them together couldn't take down Jaime (who struggled to beat a random patrolmen the other week) and Bronn. What's that about? They teased this plan hatched by Ellaria only to have it thwarted right away making them look stupid. I think Bronn is done though, that blade to the arm may have been poisoned and I'm upset thinking about it.

The Kings Landing stuff is progressing nicely. Diana Rigg is a welcome return due to how badass she is, the Tyrells are a lot more interesting in the show so it'll be nice to see Natalie Dormer in a change of scenery whilst locked away. I really hope Olenna Sparks the match that brings about Cersei's fall from grace, what with Littlefinger back in the capital it would make sense for those two to hatch a plan to get rid of her being that Baelish has already worked her in the episode making her at odds with the North again.

No Dany this week which is fine with me, I think we needed a break from Jon so that was good. Love me some Tyrion though and we went old school with all that talk of cocks and him bullshitting his way out of a death sentence, the scene where Jorah found out about Jeor was genuinely moving.

In closing, Daniel Portman (Pod) said on Thronecast that the finale would break the Internet so if any of you have any theories I'd very much enjoy reading them.

[SortaCreative]

This episode highlighted something I was worried about with Game of Thrones getting ahead of the books in places.

I think the show is strongest when it's walking step by step with the books. Sure they deviate and characters are altered but by in large some of the main story lines are similar to the books. And they're the strongest.

Winterfell and Dorne are the big deviations and they're the elements of the show with the biggest problems.

Starting with Dorne. The whole thing is flat. It has zero tension and the only interesting part of this storyline is the proposed meeting between Jaime and Doran. We don't know it happens but the idea that Jaime is going to Dorne, him meeting Doran immediately springs to mind. Instead we have something that looks like low rent BBC soft core Arabian nights porn. It was highly choreographed and lacked any tension. Compare this fight to the fight between Brienne and the Hound, another invented fight for the show, and the tension was there in that fight. It wasn't obvious or corny. It was well done and did a lot for everyone involved. Sand Snakes vs. Jaime and Bronn did nothing. For anyone.

Winterfell. Throughout the season we've had this building narrative of Sansa becoming more in control of her destiny. Littlefinger says it himself. When I first heard Sansa was going to be taking over Jeyne Poole, I was afraid. But since the start of the season I was pleasantly surprised. She was in a dangerous place but she was finding a way to survive and take her little shots. Play the game. She even tells Myranda to go spin and walks into this forced wedding with some steeliness about what needed to be done in service of playing the game. And then she took several steps back. I felt like their "consummation" / rape scene didn't fit the Sansa we were currently developing. In this world a marriage is only official after the consummation. It was always going to happen and that's part of the threat Sansa feels when the notion of marrying Ramsay is mentioned.

The scene went off the rails, however, when it became about Theon. While I think Alfie Allens acting was fantastic in the scene, it was pointless. It shouldn't have been about Theon. The way the scene played out was that Sansa had little to no agency in the consummation/rape. Theon was forced to watch and the horror he was made to witness may be turning some gears in his mind to shake Ramsay's hold over him. That development is needed for Theon, sure, but not like this. This scene should have been about Sansa. Consummating her marriage with Ramsay was going to be a difficult thing for her to do. One, he's a Bolton. His house had a massive hand in decimating hers. Two, she's a virgin. The biological and mental implications of that would have made it hard to go through the consummation with someone she doesn't want or love.

If they had made the scene about Sansa and her decision to go through such a horror in an attempt to better some political standing or gain some hold over Ramsay it may have worked better. They pretty much set it up with the bath tub scene and the wedding. Sansa telling Myranda that "that isn't how the world works" is her acknowledging the shitty world she lives in. The fact that she won't get the knight in shining armour and neither will Myranda. If last episode's theme was Kill the Boy. This was Sansa killing the little girl inside her. I don't know, even then I don't think it would have been the smartest way to play it but it would have been better than the version we got now.

I would have rather Sansa demand Theon leave and the camera left with him. Sansa is left to consummate her marriage but she's exercised a level of agency in the scene. Two, she could have tried to manipulate Ramsay like Littlefinger suggested. Maybe even turning Ramsay against Myranda. I just felt like it was the obvious thing to have evil-Ramsay do an evil thing. But if he had to do the evil thing, why not make it about the character it's happening to.

The fact that Sansa's abuse was introduced into the story so that Theon could have a vehicle for improvement and redemption isn't the first easy-way the writers have taken in the show. They could have made the Faith Militant moral hard arses without making Loras out to be the gay boy toy of Kings Landing. Especially when in the books Loras doesn't get over Renly. Let alone sleep with Baelish's manager or whatever.

We'll find out more next week. If Sansa reacts this episode by suddenly asking for Theon's help then there's been no progression. Infact she's gone back two seasons. That's a "stupid girl with stupid dreams" Sansa thing to do. Not a "i'm in the bath and go fuck yourself and your world view Myranda" Sansa thing to do.

Idk.

[UTK]

What annoys me the most is how this is the complete opposite of her TWOW arc. This just makes me more excited for TWOW, where we can see Sansa be a normal fucking human again and not tortured over and over for shock value.

I don't think we read the same books.

Sansa has had a rough time since day one.

Have you read her first chapter in TWOW? It's the beginning of a very different Sansa. A happier one, with more control over her own life.

[Locke]

I just now realized I was tagged in this thread.

I haven't read any of the books. I tried, but I have a tough time getting into books. JK Rowling is about the only author alive that can hook me and get my imagination really cranking.. every time I read Harry Potter books, it still feels like I'm really visiting Hogwarts/that universe (in my mind, reading before bed - then sometimes dream because I read before falling asleep). Doesn't work for me with GRRM.. Tolkien kind of works for me but he also bored me a lot (I did finish all the LOTR books, though).

Anyway, all that being said, since I haven't read the story I don't find myself too concerned with the changes in direction. I am a little curious as to if the show has gotten further along than the book yet because a lot of people seem more clueless this season than previous seasons where people were calling shots left and right.

I like Season 5 so far but nothing like the first seasons. I really think I'll restart the series at the end of Season 5 and watch it start to finish again.

[Everlong]

I am a little curious as to if the show has gotten further along than the book yet because a lot of people seem more clueless this season than previous seasons where people were calling shots left and right.

Yeah so they've ventured a little bit past where the books are in some stories, and they've also completely changed stuff (like the Sansa storyline, some of Dany's stuff, etc.).

[Everlong]

http://novacritic.com/game-of-thrones-s ... nsa-stark/

My thoughts on this Sansa business, for anyone interested.

[Locke]

Sansa rape scene was very uncomfortable, but done about as well as they could do it.

Reek was like: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[SortaCreative]

Sansa rape scene was very uncomfortable, but done about as well as they could do it.

Or they could not do it.