Messiah - What's a top QB?

[Philip Rivers]

You refer to Cam as a top QB and you say that he gets no credit, he's not better than any of these guys though:

Manning
Rodgers
Rivers
Brady
Brees
Eli Manning
Big Ben*
Luck
Romo
Ryan
Flacco

I would borderline argue a few other dudes playing the QB position as well. Not better than any of the guys listed above.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

[Messiah]

A top QB = Top 10 QB.

Cam Newton is absolutely better than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.

And quite frankly, how many guys do you think could do just as well as Newton has been doing in his current situation? Bottom 5 receivers, bottom 5 offensive line, bottom 5 running game and still putting up great numbers. He is leading his team in rushing despite missing Week 1 and having broken ribs and ankle surgery. He has been sacked on average more than any other QB in the NFL not named Chad Henne. His receivers drop ample passes including Benji.

To argue Cam isn't one of the best QBs in the NFL is ignorance.

[The Legend]

I would definitely take Cam over Big Ben, Romo, Eli and Flacco and definitely consider it over Luck, Ryan and Rivers.

[Messiah]

And Cam Newton has out-performed Tom Brady this year. Not that I would rank Newton over Brady, just saying in case you are going to use the "just this year" to argue some guys over him.

[Philip Rivers]

A top QB = Top 10 QB.

Cam Newton is absolutely better than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.

So...one guy (Flacco) who arguably had one of the best post seasons in NFL history, won a Super Bowl and has consistently won coming out of, what then, was one of the best divisions in the league for years...has a pedigree, and who's team this season looks better as well, yet Cam is better?

I'm not even going to mention Eli, that guy has two rings and defeated one of the best teams of all time, head coaches/QB combo in the big show twice....

[Philip Rivers]

I would definitely take Cam over Big Ben, Romo, Eli and Flacco and definitely consider it over Luck, Ryan and Rivers.

Based off what? Any of those guys standing clean in a pocket throwing the ball is better than Cam, purely based off throwing the football.

Any of the guys who've legit won rings as well, they're better.

[The Legend]

A top QB = Top 10 QB.

Cam Newton is absolutely better than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.

So...one guy (Flacco) who arguably had one of the best post seasons in NFL history, won a Super Bowl and has consistently won coming out of, what then, was one of the best divisions in the league for years...has a pedigree, and who's team this season looks better as well, yet Cam is better?

I'm not even going to mention Eli, that guy has two rings and defeated one of the best teams of all time, head coaches/QB combo in the big show twice....

The Ravens and Giants won Super Bowls, it's a a team sport. They won because of defense and running games moreso than their quarterbacks.

[Messiah]

A top QB = Top 10 QB.

Cam Newton is absolutely better than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.

So...one guy (Flacco) who arguably had one of the best post seasons in NFL history, won a Super Bowl and has consistently won coming out of, what then, was one of the best divisions in the league for years...has a pedigree, and who's team this season looks better as well, yet Cam is better.

I'm not even going to mention Eli, that guy has two rings and defeated one of the best teams of all time, head coaches/QB combo in the big show twice....

So are Joe Flacco and Eli Manning both better QBs than Philip Rivers?

[The Legend]

I would definitely take Cam over Big Ben, Romo, Eli and Flacco and definitely consider it over Luck, Ryan and Rivers.

Based off what? Any of those guys standing clean in a pocket throwing the ball is better than Cam, purely based off being a QB.

A QB isn't just throwing the football, definitely not any more. Realistically, quarterbacks don't get to just stand clean and throw the ball. You need a playmaker that is good when things break down as well and threatens defenses in unique ways.

[Messiah]

Also, what happened as soon as Flacco's offensive line and running game weren't as good?

22 interceptions, 19 TDs.

What happens when Cam Newton's OL and running game suck?

He leads the team in rushing, 8 TDs, 2 INTs, 92 QB Rating. Doing this against a much more difficult schedule than anyone else in the NFL, by the way.

If you want to argue Flacco or Eli over Newton, that is fine. But don't resort to a 4 game stretch or something that happened in 2007 or 2011 as your crutch. What exactly do Flacco and Eli do right now, or in the last 2 years, better than Cam?

[Philip Rivers]

The Ravens and Giants won Super Bowls, it's a a team sport. They won because of defense and running games moreso than their quarterbacks.

You're wrong. Flacco that post season was the man and was SB MVP as well, he was more successful than his defense during that win.

I know it's a team sport, you don't have to pretend you know a lot and feel the need to explain this to me.

I would definitely take Cam over Big Ben, Romo, Eli and Flacco and definitely consider it over Luck, Ryan and Rivers.

Based off what? Any of those guys standing clean in a pocket throwing the ball is better than Cam, purely based off being a QB.

A QB isn't just throwing the football, definitely not any more. Realistically, quarterbacks don't get to just stand clean and throw the ball. You need a playmaker that is good when things break down as well and threatens defenses in unique ways.

What play-making QB has won the SB in recent years, based off the exception of Wilson? A GM WOULD DRAFT A CLASSICAL, GRADE A pocket passer, conventionally and technically great before they drafted the play-maker.

These guys who get out of the pocket only get injured and broken down. Not buying that shit, sorry.

A top QB = Top 10 QB.

Cam Newton is absolutely better than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.

So...one guy (Flacco) who arguably had one of the best post seasons in NFL history, won a Super Bowl and has consistently won coming out of, what then, was one of the best divisions in the league for years...has a pedigree, and who's team this season looks better as well, yet Cam is better.

I'm not even going to mention Eli, that guy has two rings and defeated one of the best teams of all time, head coaches/QB combo in the big show twice....

So are Joe Flacco and Eli Manning both better QBs than Philip Rivers?

Gotta give it to Eli until Rivers wins a ring, it will always be that way. In terms of pure play, he's far better than them, numbers only do so much for a guy/team though.

Also to be fair, you're taking my logic and basing it off Rivers and not Cam, Rivers is on an entire different level throwing the ball than Cam.

Flacco has won a lot in this league, a lot...he's been more impactful for his team than Cam ever has been able to be.

[Messiah]

Also to be fair, you're taking my logic and basing it off Rivers and not Cam, Rivers is on an entire different level throwing the ball than Cam.

You keep saying this as if what Cam Newton adds on the ground game is completely irrelevant. Not to mention it was your logic. It is the only reasoning you gave for Eli and Flacco over Cam despite the fact Newton has far better numbers than those two the last two years. And Cam Newton has put up better numbers than Andrew Luck too.

Regardless, I'm done. You clearly put a lot of stock into something that happened years back and championships hence why you went as far as to say Eli Manning is better than Philip Rivers. There isn't anything I can say that just won't end up going in circles (and if I recall, this was the case when we got into our Romo/Eli debate a couple of years ago) if that is the stance you are sticking to because there is no way around it. Cam hasn't won a Super Bowl. Eli and Flacco have. He won't be better than them until he does. Nothing I say or nothing Cam does on the field can disprove that in your mind unless he wins a Lombardi.

[Philip Rivers]

Okay, how many playoff wins does Cam have the past 2-3 years? How can you be a top 10 QB with 0 playoff wins?

Not to mention you played like shit in your only appearance.

Lets be serious, running QBs don't win titles like that, people are going to take prime Brady, Rivers, Manning, Bress, Rodgers, Eli, passing from the pocket, generally 9-10 times.

Outside your stans and kids who want to get outside of the pocket and stay injured. RGKnee.



I just don't have him in that atmosphere of a top 10 QB, you're saying it's dumb to invest stock into guys who have won on a different platform or at least been there...yet Cam doesn't have 1 significant win in his career outside the regular season yet.

If he's so good, where's the post season victory? LUCK has done way more, with way less around him as well.





0 PLAYOFF WINS



Fuckin 0.

[Messiah]

Okay, how many playoff wins does Cam have the past 2-3 years? How can you be a top 10 QB with 0 playoff wins?

The same amount as Ben Roethlisberger and Tony Romo.

Philip Rivers won 1 more (against the Bengals) but they made it just as far as Cam Newton did and NFC was a much tougher conference than the AFC last year. Same applies to Andrew Luck, and we don't need to get into how bad Luck has looked in the playoffs.

But I guess your rules don't count for them. Ben Roethlisberger winning a Super Bowl in 2008 has SO much to do with the player he currently is in 2014.

[Messiah]

LUCK has done way more, with way less around him as well.

Get the fuck out.

[Philip Rivers]

Okay, how many playoff wins does Cam have the past 2-3 years? How can you be a top 10 QB with 0 playoff wins?

The same amount as Ben Roethlisberger and Tony Romo.

Philip Rivers won 1 more (against the Bengals) but they made it just as far as Cam Newton did and NFC was a much tougher conference than the AFC last year.

But I guess your rules don't count for them.

They have a win though or more than a win.

Top 10 QB but you're not even a top QB in your division.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

LUCK has done way more, with way less around him as well.

Get the fuck out.

Please don't try to act like the Indy team that beat Kansas City in the playoffs last year was stacked. People really consider a 35 year old Reggie Wayne and TY Hilton on par with prime Wayne and Marvin Harrison

[Messiah]

Okay, how many playoff wins does Cam have the past 2-3 years? How can you be a top 10 QB with 0 playoff wins?

The same amount as Ben Roethlisberger and Tony Romo.

Philip Rivers won 1 more (against the Bengals) but they made it just as far as Cam Newton did and NFC was a much tougher conference than the AFC last year.

But I guess your rules don't count for them.

They have a win though or more than a win.

Top 10 QB but you're not even a top QB in your division.

There are only 8 divisions. 10 QBs. You do the math.

And Romo had 1 win... in 2009. But I guess 2009 has a LOT to do with 2014, right?

Note - I don't think Cam Newton is better than Tony Romo right now. Your logic is just ridiculous.

[Philip Rivers]

LUCK has done way more, with way less around him as well.

Get the fuck out.

Luck with that Carolina D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luck with a playoff win >>>>>>>>>>>>>>


You got a defensive MVP/ROTY and one of the best D's, but you got no help.