Brady and Belichick are the best to ever do it

[Messiah]

LOL FALCONS

[JDD]

"Falcons blew a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl" is the new "Warriors blew a 3-1 lead". Brady is GOAT. Glad it ended up being a good game and not a blowout. Also glad the Giants are the only blemishes on Tom Brady's Super Bowl record.

[Everlong]

Anybody who denies it at this point needs jesus. The Patriots are the best ever. Brady is the best ever. Belichick is the best ever. GET OVER IT

[DBSoT]

Worst 2nd half play calling ever. Instead of just running the ball and kicking the game clinching field goal, Atlanta kept dropping Matt Ryan back to pass. Well, as expected, they pushed themselves out of field goal range and gave New England an opening. Brady and Belicheck are by far the GOATs, but man did the Falcons coaching staff go brain dead. That was a choke job of epic proportions.

On a separate note, I kind of wonder what the view of Brady and Belicheck would be if Seattle ran the ball and Atlanta didn't choke.

[The Legend]

Anybody who denies it at this point needs jesus. The Patriots are the best ever. Brady is the best ever. Belichick is the best ever. GET OVER IT

Brady is the best ever. Brady makes Belichick the best ever.

Worst 2nd half play calling ever. Instead of just running the ball and kicking the game clinching field goal, Atlanta kept dropping Matt Ryan back to pass. Well, as expected, they pushed themselves out of field goal range and gave New England an opening. Brady and Belicheck are by far the GOATs, but man did the Falcons coaching staff go brain dead. That was a choke job of epic proportions.

It really felt like Kyle Shanahan was calling plays in the fourth quarter to either prove his genius or validate the Niners hiring him this week. Instead of just calling plays to win the game.

[Daz]

It was one hell of a comeback.

[AkydefGoldberg]

Heard about this incredible comeback on the way to work and Brady picking up his fifth NFL ring. Not familiar with American football at all but Brady is being described as the GOAT on here and elsewhere, but in what way do his performances show that? Is he better than the other names I hear when it comes to that sport such as the Mannings etc? Shame he's a Trump fan (not sure the background on that but something along those lines), who incidentally would have been delighted with that result!

[DBSoT]

Heard about this incredible comeback on the way to work and Brady picking up his fifth NFL ring. Not familiar with American football at all but Brady is being described as the GOAT on here and elsewhere, but in what way do his performances show that? Is he better than the other names I hear when it comes to that sport such as the Mannings etc? Shame he's a Trump fan (not sure the background on that but something along those lines), who incidentally would have been delighted with that result!

He pretty much has every metric/stat necessary to be considered the best ever. He has the most championships, most Superbowl appearances, most TDs thrown in a season, he has beaten all of the greats of his era multiple times and has done it without always having the best supporting cast.

Just to clarify, this is in reference to him being the greatest QB ever, not the greatest football player ever. There is no way to determine the greatest football player ever because every position is very different and requires very different skills. I am also not saying that is what your post was asking. I have just heard this argument today and I can't believe people are still trying to figure out who the GOAT football player is.

[Everlong]

Brady is the best ever. Brady makes Belichick the best ever.

Based on what? How could you not call Beli the greatest ever at this point? If anything, I think he's had a larger role than Brady in the Pats' success.

[The Legend]

Brady is the best ever. Brady makes Belichick the best ever.

Based on what? How could you not call Beli the greatest ever at this point? If anything, I think he's had a larger role than Brady in the Pats' success.

Bill Belichick has been a head coach in the NFL for 21 seasons. 15 of those have been with Tom Brady as his QB, 6 of those have been with someone else as his QB. In games played over 15 seasons by Tom Brady, Belichick has a coaching record of 185-53 in the regular season, has made the playoffs 14 times, has a postseason record of 25-9 and 5 Super Bowl championships.

In his six+ seasons with anyone else at QB, Belichick has a record of 55-63 with one playoff season and a 1-1 postseason record.

Belichick got to the Patriots in 2000, they went 5-11. They started the 2001 season 0-2 before Drew Bledsoe got wrecked. All that changed was they put Brady in and they were Super Bowl champs by the end of the season.

So tell me, how do you not think Brady is the key to the Patriots success? Belichick would have been a twice fired, never-was, forgotten man if Drew Bledsoe never got hurt.

[Messiah]

Brady is the best ever. Brady makes Belichick the best ever.

Based on what? How could you not call Beli the greatest ever at this point? If anything, I think he's had a larger role than Brady in the Pats' success.

Bill Belichick has been a head coach in the NFL for 21 seasons. 15 of those have been with Tom Brady as his QB, 6 of those have been with someone else as his QB. In games played over 15 seasons by Tom Brady, Belichick has a coaching record of 185-53 in the regular season, has made the playoffs 14 times, has a postseason record of 25-9 and 5 Super Bowl championships.

In his six+ seasons with anyone else at QB, Belichick has a record of 55-63 with one playoff season and a 1-1 postseason record.

Belichick got to the Patriots in 2000, they went 5-11. They started the 2001 season 0-2 before Drew Bledsoe got wrecked. All that changed was they put Brady in and they were Super Bowl champs by the end of the season.

So tell me, how do you not think Brady is the key to the Patriots success? Belichick would have been a twice fired, never-was, forgotten man if Drew Bledsoe never got hurt.

That seems kind of unfair. Of all the head coaches considered great historically, how many of them did it without a Hall of Fame or great QB?

Everything is situational based. Would Belichick be seen in the same light if he had trash at QB? Probably not, but I don't think it is fair to hold it against him. Gibbs is the only head coach I can think of who had success with multiple QBs and none of them (aside from Joe Theis) being particularly good.

[Messiah]

It isn't like Brady is the only elite QB in the NFL. Brees and Rodgers are amazing quarterbacks as well, clear-cut Hall of Famers, and their teams haven't been nearly as good or consistent as the Patriots. Belichick has played a huge role in New England's longevity.

You don't come back from 25 points in the Super Bowl without a coach who knows how to adjust.

[The Legend]

They aren't Brady, but I'd hardly call Kosar, Testaverde and Bledsoe trash at QB.

[The Legend]

Coaches who have done it with lesser QB's:

Don Shula was actually better before Marino got to Miami
George Halas won with a bunch of QB's most have never heard of
Tom Landry was equally good of a coach with or without Staubach for most of his career
Curly Lambeau
Marty Schottenheimer never had a HOF QB

That's five coaches who join Belichick in the Top 10 of all-time winning percentage whose success is definitely not tied to one player as much as Belichick's success has been.

The question was is Belichick the greatest coach ever and simply no I don't believe he is and I challenge anyone to tell me how he's a better coach than Shula or Halas in particular.

[Everlong]

Coaches who have done it with lesser QB's:

Don Shula was actually better before Marino got to Miami
George Halas won with a bunch of QB's most have never heard of
Tom Landry was equally good of a coach with or without Staubach for most of his career
Curly Lambeau
Marty Schottenheimer never had a HOF QB

That's five coaches who join Belichick in the Top 10 of all-time winning percentage whose success is definitely not tied to one player as much as Belichick's success has been.

The question was is Belichick the greatest coach ever and simply no I don't believe he is and I challenge anyone to tell me how he's a better coach than Shula or Halas in particular.

-Shula also had Johnny Unitas and Bob Griese, two Hall of Famers, and even better rounded teams before Marino.
-George Halas won with a bunch of QBs most have never heard of when there were like 12 teams in the league.
-In addition to Staubach, Landry also had Don Meredith and Danny White, two very good players. But he did not win any titles without Staubach.
-Curly Lambeau had Arnie Herber, who was the greatest quarterback of his generation, for the bulk of his title wins.
-Marty Schottenheimer also never won or reached a Super Bowl


As far as Belichick being a better coach than Shula or Halas, I don't even see how it's close with them, honestly. I think Belichick's only competition is Lombardi, Paul Brown and *maybe* Chuck Noll. But Belichick has won five titles and reached seven Super Bowls in a salary cap era, 16-game season, expanded playoffs, free agency, you name it. In an era in which the sport is more competitive than ever, he still manages to have the Patriots be head and shoulders above the rest of the league on an annual basis.

[The Legend]

Let's also talk about the benefits of the era of the NFL that the Patriots play in during the Belichick Era. They play at a time where defense and offensive line play have never been at a lower standard. They play in the most restrictive time in the NFL in terms of practicing and preparation, so a team like the Patriots that perfected their system before this time is greatly benefited. They play in the salary cap era, a time which has become impossible to build a dynastic team without a great QB because great defenders all want to get paid. Look at the teams that make the playoffs year after year, it's all because they've got a $20 million dollar QB who carries 52 average dudes just like the Patriots do. Playing in the salary cap era is a great benefit for a team with a great QB, not a detriment. Finally, they get passes to the playoffs year after year because they play in a division with three sad sack franchises that possess no ability to be a threat to anyone.

[Messiah]

Let's also talk about the benefits of the era of the NFL that the Patriots play in during the Belichick Era. They play at a time where defense and offensive line play have never been at a lower standard. They play in the most restrictive time in the NFL in terms of practicing and preparation, so a team like the Patriots that perfected their system before this time is greatly benefited. They play in the salary cap era, a time which has become impossible to build a dynastic team without a great QB because great defenders all want to get paid. Look at the teams that make the playoffs year after year, it's all because they've got a $20 million dollar QB who carries 52 average dudes just like the Patriots do. Playing in the salary cap era is a great benefit for a team with a great QB, not a detriment. Finally, they get passes to the playoffs year after year because they play in a division with three sad sack franchises that possess no ability to be a threat to anyone.

Even if everything you said was accurate... you do realize every other team in the NFL plays with these SAME advantages, right?

So again, not sure how it is supposed to be held against the Patriots.

And this is the first time I have ever seen someone imply that the salary cap helps teams. Back in the day, once you got a star player, you never lost them. Coaches could keep loaded teams for years because there was little risk of losing someone. Nowadays you have no choice but to continually reload.

so a team like the Patriots that perfected their system before this time is greatly benefited

They have had several different offensive coordinators.

[Messiah]

And again, they aren't the only team with an elite QB in the NFL. It's obviously more than that considering the Packers and Saints, for example, haven't been nearly as consistent. I mean Packers make the playoffs every year but a lot of times, aren't considered one of the best 2 teams in their conference like the Patriots are (Falcons/Cowboys in 2016, Panthers/Cardinals in 2015, they were right there with the Seahawks in 2014, Panthers/Seahawks in 2013, Seahawks/49ers in 2012).

[The Legend]

Every team plays in the era of the worst defense and worst offensive line, but none of the other teams have the greatest QB to ever live to cover up their flaws like Brady does.

Once the Patriots got the greatest QB they don't lose him, Brady makes re-loading a lot easier. Again it's Brady and 52 dudes off the street that could win the Super Bowl. Having the greatest QB in the league's history is a lot simpler to keep in the salary cap era than having a dozen guys that are all great that all need to get paid to keep the team moving.

Have they really had several coordinators though? They had Charlie Weis that helped Brady mold the perfect offense for Brady and taught him how to play the game at an elite level. After that they've pretty much had Brady keep the same basic systems in place with slightly different window dressing.

The Packers and Saints don't have Tom Brady though. Brady doesn't just play the best as anyone in NFL history, there's Brady, there's an empty level beneath him and then there's the other greats in NFL history beneath that level.

[Messiah]

The Packers and Saints don't have Tom Brady though. Brady doesn't just play the best as anyone in NFL history, there's Brady, there's an empty level beneath him and then there's the other greats in NFL history beneath that level.

Okay, now you are just overrating the hell out of Brady.