John Cena just killed it on the mic!

[ShaneOfan]

Seriously not only was it his best promo in years, it was one of THE best promos on Raw in a long time. He killed it. He out shown Paul Heyman tonight. Say what you want about Cena winning all the time but give credit where credit is due.

[Viazon]

When John Cena says the kind of things he said on Raw tonight, it really put what he really does in perspective. Is he that great in the ring? Not really. Is he stale? Sure. Do I get tired of seeing him in the main event all the time? Of course I do. But then he delivers a speech like that and it makes me feel bad for all the hate he gets, considering all the good he does. No matter what, you gotta respect the man.

[PorkChop]

I just watched it after seeing the hype it got on here.

It was a cool promo, and I'd have really enjoyed it... if I hadn't seen it so many times before. It was just Heyman telling Cena to 'embrace the hate' and Cena throwing it back in his face with the typical "rise above hate" shit, whilst also raising his voice in the middle of sentences and yelling down the microphone in typical Cena fashion.

I'll pass.

[Georgerv]

What porkchop said essentially. He throws out this speech in every feud where he's facing an IWC favorite, every damn time, and while yes it's a good promo it's stale... like him.

I'm tired of being told I'm not supposed to hate him because he does charity work, all the charity work in the world doesn't make up for the fact that I've been forced to hear about him or see him on my screen for at least 2 hours a week for the last 10 years without any growth or change. At this point I just roll my eyes when this promo starts.

[PorkChop]

What porkchop said essentially. He throws out this speech in every feud where he's facing an IWC favorite, every damn time, and while yes it's a good promo it's stale... like him.

I'm tired of being told I'm not supposed to hate him because he does charity work, all the charity work in the world doesn't make up for the fact that I've been forced to hear about him or see him on my screen for at least 2 hours a week for the last 10 years without any growth or change. At this point I just roll my eyes when this promo starts.

When people leap to Cena's defence by claiming he's a nice guy, it reminds me of the times when people would say that about Emile Heskey. "Leave the man be, he's a lovely bloke!"

Doesn't mean he isn't shit at his job. Heskey was fucking terrible and needed to be dropped years before he was. In the same way, Cena is horrid at what he does and has been for several years, and that needs to change. Being a nice guy doesn't excuse that at all, whether it be in wrestling, football, or any kind of profession. You wouldn't employ a surgeon who was shit at their job, even if they were the nicest guy in the world. If you went in to have a broken wrist fixed and woke up without a penis, you wouldn't laugh it off and forgive the surgeon because he did some charity work once.

TL;DR - John Cena is the Emile Heskey of wrestling. People who claim Cena is a nice guy don't care about their penises.

[VaderBomb]

Yup. Best Cena promo of the past few years by far. It wasn't beautiful because it sensationalized or over-sentimentilized things, it was beautiful because Cena actually enjoys being what he is. Like him or not, that's pretty moving.

[flock u]

What porkchop said essentially. He throws out this speech in every feud where he's facing an IWC favorite, every damn time, and while yes it's a good promo it's stale... like him.

I'm tired of being told I'm not supposed to hate him because he does charity work, all the charity work in the world doesn't make up for the fact that I've been forced to hear about him or see him on my screen for at least 2 hours a week for the last 10 years without any growth or change. At this point I just roll my eyes when this promo starts.

So he's still Prototype John Cena ??

[HFX]

What porkchop said essentially. He throws out this speech in every feud where he's facing an IWC favorite, every damn time, and while yes it's a good promo it's stale... like him.

I'm tired of being told I'm not supposed to hate him because he does charity work, all the charity work in the world doesn't make up for the fact that I've been forced to hear about him or see him on my screen for at least 2 hours a week for the last 10 years without any growth or change. At this point I just roll my eyes when this promo starts.

So he's still Prototype John Cena ??

Prototype Cena is from 2001, which you well know is over a decade ago since you know of Prototype Cena, so why bring it up. It's like saying The Undertaker used to be Mean Mark Callous or Texas Red or any of his other earlier gimmicks. Now while it's not quite a decade, Cena has been pretty much the same since 2007 and you could argue all the way back to 2004/05.

[The Legend]

Yup. Best Cena promo of the past few years by far. It wasn't beautiful because it sensationalized or over-sentimentilized things, it was beautiful because Cena actually enjoys being what he is. Like him or not, that's pretty moving.

That's exactly it for me. Call me a sap or whatever you want, but I find of everyone on the roster Cena is inspirational and that's why I like him. guy that goes out and wants to do the right thing because it's the right thing and gets to come out on top most of the time is rewarding in a world where that doesn't happen nearly as often as it should. A guy that just works harder than everyone else and is the perfect employee and gets to be on top because of it.

[PorkChop]

Yup. Best Cena promo of the past few years by far. It wasn't beautiful because it sensationalized or over-sentimentilized things, it was beautiful because Cena actually enjoys being what he is. Like him or not, that's pretty moving.

That's exactly it for me. Call me a sap or whatever you want, but I find of everyone on the roster Cena is inspirational and that's why I like him. guy that goes out and wants to do the right thing because it's the right thing and gets to come out on top most of the time is rewarding in a world where that doesn't happen nearly as often as it should. A guy that just works harder than everyone else and is the perfect employee and gets to be on top because of it.

Ok, let's not romanticise this. Yes, Cena works hard and is a nice guy. He's also a tedious, stagnant, and horrible character. He's been this way for several years. There's no getting around that.

[Str8Shooter]

Yup. Best Cena promo of the past few years by far. It wasn't beautiful because it sensationalized or over-sentimentilized things, it was beautiful because Cena actually enjoys being what he is. Like him or not, that's pretty moving.

That's exactly it for me. Call me a sap or whatever you want, but I find of everyone on the roster Cena is inspirational and that's why I like him. guy that goes out and wants to do the right thing because it's the right thing and gets to come out on top most of the time is rewarding in a world where that doesn't happen nearly as often as it should. A guy that just works harder than everyone else and is the perfect employee and gets to be on top because of it.

Ok, let's not romanticise this. Yes, Cena works hard and is a nice guy. He's also a tedious, stagnant, and horrible character. He's been this way for several years. There's no getting around that.

Even if he is, the single act of that promo was a damn good promo, great fire and passion and delivery. People damn Cena for everything about his character that even when he does something good, he's criticized because we've seen him cut similar promos. He's cutting similar promos because every antagonist he has is using the same stuff against him.

[Messiah]

I just can't bring myself to be moved by a John Cena promo that he has cut so many times in the last what feels like an eternity. I tried to come up with an analogy but I am not sure anything can come close to Cena's staleness.

[Everlong]

He's cutting similar promos because every antagonist he has is using the same stuff against him.

Maybe antagonists are forced into using the same material because Cena literally hasn't changed his character in 10 years? I mean there's only so much left you can do when your opponent has such a limited repertoire of promos.

[Str8Shooter]

He's cutting similar promos because every antagonist he has is using the same stuff against him.

Maybe antagonists are forced into using the same material because Cena literally hasn't changed his character in 10 years? I mean there's only so much left you can do when your opponent has such a limited repertoire of promos.

Why do they always have to use the fact the crowd hates him. Why can't they just use the oldest trick in the book, "I Hate you and I want to kick your ass"

[Hanley!]

Yeah, 2007 called and it wants its promo back.

Good delivery in fairness. Might have been powerful back then. In 2014, it was just more of the same.

He's cutting similar promos because every antagonist he has is using the same stuff against him.

Sure, Brett. It's everyone else's fault. That sounds plausible.

The heels only have so many ways to interact with such a shallow character. And lets be honest here: Cena is the one that dictates basically every promo he's involved in. Every promo becomes about Cena's face/heel status, it never ends up revolving around any particular trait of his opponent's character. Everything gets sucked into the black hole of interest that is John Cena.

[Str8Shooter]

Sure, Brett. It's everyone else's fault. That sounds plausible.

I have never once said that Cena is a perfect character, or he's a great character, or even that he's a good character. Somehow I've been thrust into the role of Cena Defender Extraordinaire on here because I'm one of the few people on here who doesn't think he's the Satan of WWE, singlehandedly destroying everything that is pro wrestling.

John Cena is simply better in the ring than people give him credit for, he's better on the mic than people give him credit for. He works his ass off, I don't know why his character doesn't get more developed and layered, whether it's WWE that wants him this way, or if it's Cena himself, or if it's a combination of both.

Cena in that promo was speaking the truth, his truth. That promo was from the heart because to me watching it, I felt like John Cena the man, not the character, meant all the stuff he said, he doesn't want to turn heel, he likes doing the Make A Wishes and having smiling kids hug him and look up to him, he likes having soldiers hand him their prized possession and telling him that he motivated them to get better. He likes all that stuff and if he changes his character too much, he risks losing all that, which he doesn't want to do.

[The Legend]

This is why I hate John Cena arguments and have pretty much blocked them all out for a really long time. Those that get it get and those that don't don't and no ones mind ever gets changed.

[Kirbi]

The truth is that Cena is neither intrinsically bad in the ring or on the mic, and when the situation is right he can be great at both. He also seems to genuinely care about some very worthy causes, and to put the work in to support them.

But I really hate to see John Cena on TV. If I see him come on the show, my interest immediately deflates. This is because none of these things make him any less boring.

[Hanley!]

Sure, Brett. It's everyone else's fault. That sounds plausible.

I have never once said that Cena is a perfect character, or he's a great character, or even that he's a good character. Somehow I've been thrust into the role of Cena Defender Extraordinaire on here because I'm one of the few people on here who doesn't think he's the Satan of WWE, singlehandedly destroying everything that is pro wrestling.

John Cena is simply better in the ring than people give him credit for, he's better on the mic than people give him credit for. He works his ass off, I don't know why his character doesn't get more developed and layered, whether it's WWE that wants him this way, or if it's Cena himself, or if it's a combination of both.

Cena in that promo was speaking the truth, his truth. That promo was from the heart because to me watching it, I felt like John Cena the man, not the character, meant all the stuff he said, he doesn't want to turn heel, he likes doing the Make A Wishes and having smiling kids hug him and look up to him, he likes having soldiers hand him their prized possession and telling him that he motivated them to get better. He likes all that stuff and if he changes his character too much, he risks losing all that, which he doesn't want to do.

Yeah, you're changing the parameters of the argument though. I don't strongly disagree with anything you said in this post. It's all extremely fair. But your previous assessment that John Cena only cuts the same promo constantly because every heel cuts the same promo on him was utter BS. Cena is the one with the problem. Blaming the variables instead of the constant is completely illogical.

This is why I hate John Cena arguments and have pretty much blocked them all out for a really long time. Those that get it get and those that don't don't and no ones mind ever gets changed.

That's most arguments though. People are stubborn and not easily convinced. Still if you're passionate about something it can still be fun to have the conversation. And maybe you'll end up wearing someone down over time.

With Cena though, of course opinions are going to be even more polarising. Because splitting the audience is basically his entire character. If people couldn't mention that, they couldn't talk about him. There's not really anything else there. That's why I said in another thread that I find it so bizarre that he's still cutting these same promos justifying his hero status. WWE decided to commit to Cena as their top guy despite the fact lots of people hated him NINE YEARS ago, yet they feel the need to have him defend that decision every single time he opens his mouth all these years later. Maybe it shows it wasn't the right move.

And of the many opinions I have on Cena, I think maybe that's my main problem: You don't pick a guy that half of your audience hates to be your top guy. Why would you want to split your audience like that? All of these arguments stem from them not making the effort to please everybody.

I know you're going to say that it's impossible to please everybody, but you can please a lot more than 50%, if it even is that much by now (I doubt it).

[Everlong]

It's just insane to me that we've been having the exact same debates about Cena's character since 2006, or at least 2007, and not a single thing has changed since then.