It is currently: Mar 28, '24, 2:49 pm

How will you remember Randy Orton?

Talk about what's going on in the WWE in this forum!

Moderator: Str8Shooter

How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby Messiah » Apr 03, '18, 6:39 pm

It kind of dawned on me how "weird" Orton's career has been. Weird might not be the best word to describe it but I don't know. I mean, Orton is/was a top guy but at the same time, it kind of feels like he was never a top guy either. Maybe it is because all of his world titles reigns sucked (and this isn't an exaggeration - I'm fairly certain every title reign Orton had was dismal, especially compared to his work when he was a challenger). It is like he was simultaneously good and bad, overrated and underrated.

Orton wasn't always perfect, but between 2004-2011 I can truthfully say he was always one of the guys I looked forward to watching. He's had and excelled in some different roles too.

2003-2006ish: Legend Killer Orton. So many great moments that I remember from this run. Orton defeating Benoit for the world title is one of my favorite title changes. I didn't expect it at the time and it was a strong match, not to mention the finisher with Orton turning an attempted crossface into the RKO was awesome. You also had his tremendous feud and street fight with Cactus Jack, The Undertaker rivalry, and his early Intercontinental title run.

2007-2009: Lunatic Orton. This was another version of Orton filled with cool moments. Orton punting people was one of the bright spots in an otherwise sad 2007. It is just a shame it took Cena getting hurt for him to win the title, which he should have won earlier than No Mercy. Plus the title reign was terrible and it saw Orton stripped of all the characteristics that made him so fun. 2008 was a weird year for him since he was hurt in the middle of it, but then he formed Legacy and had his spectacular start to '09 when he punted McMahon (which was an AWESOME moment at the time), won the Royal Rumble, and then punted Steph the next week. Once again though, WWE ruined Orton's momentum by having him lose at WrestleMania. I didn't watch much of the WWE after WrestleMania 25 so I don't know what else he did that year, but a quick Wiki search shows he had a lot of matches with John Cena.

2010: ??? Orton. This was a bad year for Orton. Just kind of dragged after his babyface turn. Had a crappy feud with Barrett then lost the title to Miz.

2011-2012: Great Wrestler Orton. I loved Orton around this time and this is when I think he was at his most underrated, especially in 2011. He was churning out great matches consistently at this time.

2013-2015: Authority Orton. I remember being excited when he cashed in at SummerSlam, then I stopped watching the WWE until around the Royal Rumble of '14 because it was another title reign that stripped Orton of what made him cool. Orton/Rollins in '15 was a cool rivalry though, even if it made the Authority look like fools.

Then everything after that to now has been 2010 Orton x10. Boring as hell, no direction. This is what I mean when I say Orton has had a weird career. He is a 13 time World Champion but he has been floating for several years now as if he's Kane or Big Show. Nothing against them, but it is like the WWE literally has no more ideas for Orton and they are just waiting for him to retire. He doesn't even generate a reaction anymore and his matches aren't very good. I can't remember the last time I was like, "I can't wait to see this match Orton is in!" Even Show had a memorable match with Strowman last year. And because I don't watch the WWE other than the big PPVs ie. Rumble (I usually just read recaps to catch up), I actually can't even remember the last Orton match I watched.

For me, I think I'll remember Orton as the guy who was good and at his peak, great, but could/should have been even better if WWE booking allowed it.
  • 10

Image
User avatar
Messiah Male
Main Eventer
Main Eventer
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Topic Author
Posts: 3230
Topics: 470
Joined: Wed Oct 9, 2013
Location: Straight Cash Inc. Headquarters
Reputation: 2139

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby Messiah » Apr 03, '18, 6:44 pm



When is the last time the WWE had a young gun cleanly win in that fashion in the main event of a major PPV for their first major title?
  • 0

Image
User avatar
Messiah Male
Main Eventer
Main Eventer
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Topic Author
Posts: 3230
Topics: 470
Joined: Wed Oct 9, 2013
Location: Straight Cash Inc. Headquarters
Reputation: 2139

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby The Legend » Apr 03, '18, 7:52 pm

I think I'll always remember Orton for being a guy that was missing something and just a half a beat off or missing something for most of his career. He was really good in Evolution as a supporting guy and then as the Legend Killer he turned out great stuff. However, Legend Killer turned out to be a dead gimmick, going around beating up old, washed up guys. The biggest thing this era showed was that Orton had a ton of potential and the idea of Orton turned out to be greater than Orton himself.

Once he broke from Evolution, he didn't have what it took to make that main event run. You can say booking didn't do him any favors, but he also never found the way to really excel either, he was given plenty of chances, but was never as great as he should have been.

If I'm being totally honest, I haven't really enjoyed anything he's done for a decade. He had three really shining moments in a 15 year career. His feud with Foley, his feud with Taker and the Rated RKO pairing were without a doubt the highlights. He had one good encarnation of a feud with Cena, but all the bad feuds with Cena washed out the good.
  • 0

Image

Credit to Tim/Everlong for this awesome sig
User avatar
The Legend None specified
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5641
Topics: 331
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 1830

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby Hanley! » Apr 04, '18, 5:36 pm

I'm not entirely sure that I will. :lol

Orton has had one of the weirdest careers in the history of wrestling, and yet he still comes off as unremarkable and forgettable. Which is perhaps the weirdest thing about him.

He's an extremely talented in-ring worker. He's probably the best wrestler of all time to consistently have boring as fuck matches. There's nobody else as talented as him that can generate quite that level of apathy.

He's the only perennial main event star that I can think of that would not seem at all out of place on the kick-off show. He's the biggest name out there that doesn't have a lot of star power. He's the only 13 time world champion, who has underachieved in his career.

Part of it might be how he's booked, but his performances don't help. The guy is so naturally talented, but he seems to not try very hard as a result. He figured out years ago that he can sleep walk through a two and a half or three star match, so that's all he ever does.

As the WWE commentators would say, Orton is a "first ballot Hall of Famer" without a doubt. But he'll be maybe the worst headline Hall of Famer ever.
  • 0

User avatar
Hanley! Male
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5605
Topics: 165
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Reputation: 3988

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby The Legend » Apr 04, '18, 6:23 pm

Hanley! wrote: boring as fuck


Steve, your post was really good and agree with most of it. However, if you can use this phrase, you aren't doing it right. :P :P :P
  • 0

Image

Credit to Tim/Everlong for this awesome sig
User avatar
The Legend None specified
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5641
Topics: 331
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 1830

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby PorkChop » Apr 05, '18, 2:45 am

As others have said above, he's had a weird career. He has the athleticism and talent to be considered one of the best wrestlers they've had in the modern era, but he's underperformed for what feels like forever.

Upsides:
- Best dropkick in WWE, if not all of wrestling
- Arguably the best seller in WWE, when he wants to be (think 2009)
- Solid ring worker. Before he was given the viper gimmick, he was doing backflips and frog splashes in matches
- Good look
- One of the best finishers in the company. I've seen it argued that the RKO is the best.

Downsides:
- Seems to have coasted for the best part of the last 10 years, putting on passable but unmemorable matches
- Boring on the mic
- I can't remember an interesting feud of his since Triple H before WrestleMania 25
  • 0

User avatar
PorkChop Male
Creative Team
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 7104
Topics: 1430
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 2126

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby Messiah » Apr 05, '18, 7:56 am

I forgot about Orton's perfect dropkick.

  • 0

Image
User avatar
Messiah Male
Main Eventer
Main Eventer
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Topic Author
Posts: 3230
Topics: 470
Joined: Wed Oct 9, 2013
Location: Straight Cash Inc. Headquarters
Reputation: 2139

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby AkydefGoldberg » Apr 06, '18, 6:29 am

The Legend Killer

Sure, it was never going to have the longevity (thinking about it, could he have done a babyface LK version eliminating the legendary heels?) but he was at his most enjoyable for me. He was the typical cocky heel for that time, as part of a stable as cool as Evolution, and his feud with Foley ending in the Backlash 2004 match was brilliant. He was fucked up with an unnecessary face turn, and didn't have anything of substance (I wonder, again, whether that moment when he attacked Evolution with a sledgehammer and dropping it on Bischoff's toe before he was removed from the building may have been a style to follow, a cheeky chappy sort of face with antics to irritate the heels) to back it up and Haitch was always going to win the title back at the expense of trying to invest in a younger guy. He got some of his stardust around the WM25 match with Taker but it seems he's not that well remembered since then besides the punts, perhaps.
  • 0

User avatar
AkydefGoldberg Male
Main Eventer
Main Eventer
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 4845
Topics: 519
Age: 37
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013
Reputation: 662

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby The Legend » Apr 06, '18, 8:54 am

AkydefGoldberg wrote:The Legend Killer

Sure, it was never going to have the longevity (thinking about it, could he have done a babyface LK version eliminating the legendary heels?) but he was at his most enjoyable for me. He was the typical cocky heel for that time, as part of a stable as cool as Evolution, and his feud with Foley ending in the Backlash 2004 match was brilliant. He was fucked up with an unnecessary face turn, and didn't have anything of substance (I wonder, again, whether that moment when he attacked Evolution with a sledgehammer and dropping it on Bischoff's toe before he was removed from the building may have been a style to follow, a cheeky chappy sort of face with antics to irritate the heels) to back it up and Haitch was always going to win the title back at the expense of trying to invest in a younger guy. He got some of his stardust around the WM25 match with Taker but it seems he's not that well remembered since then besides the punts, perhaps.


Orton didn't face Taker at WM 25, he faced him at WM 21, well before he ever faced HHH for the belt. Same PPV Cena won the title off JBL and Batista won it off HHH.

As for Legend Killer gimmick going face, doubt it would have worked. At the end you have this 20 something bully beating up 60 year olds for how they behaved 20 years prior. It winds up feeling like when the Harts all jumped McMahon and beat the crap out of him for 15 minutes.
  • 1

Image

Credit to Tim/Everlong for this awesome sig
User avatar
The Legend None specified
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5641
Topics: 331
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 1830

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby PorkChop » Apr 07, '18, 3:56 pm

It still bothers me that Orton didn't win at Wrestlemania 25.

Closing the show with Orton winning - having punted Vince and Shane, RKO'd Steph and beaten Triple H at Mania - would've cemented him as a top heel and main eventer for years to come.

Instead they had a predictable Triple H win, only to have Orton regain the title a month later. Orton lost a lot of momentum though and never really recovered, and they seemed to ditch him in many regards. They turned him face after fueding with DiBiase and Rhodes, began moving him down to the midcard and then sent him over to SmackDown.

Orton's career peaked too early, really. The Legend Killer, Evolution, Rated RKO... and seems to be fizzling out now.
  • 0

User avatar
PorkChop Male
Creative Team
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 7104
Topics: 1430
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 2126

Re: How will you remember Randy Orton?

Postby KaiserGlider » Apr 07, '18, 8:09 pm

You mean the guy who won the Royal Rumble last year and then won the WWE Championship at Wrestlemania? I forgot about that too.

I will remember Orton as one of the golden boys who was always guaranteed a push and a spot at the top of the card; I don't think he would have achieved quite the level of accomplishments if not for that fact, so I feel it's important to mention it when you talk about his career as a whole. He's decent at best on the mic; in the ring he's been hit-and-miss for most of his career. As a heel his style has been called notoriously boring, but at the same time you can't help but gain an appreciation for all the little things he has perfected - like the mannerisms and facial expressions when he's doing something as simple as stomping an opponent or hitting the Hangman DDT. A strong argument can be made that the RKO is the greatest finisher of all time, and it's mindboggling how many different ways he has hit that move over the years. There's also that great dropkick, although AJ Styles may have surpassed him there.

Character-wise, I respect him for being able to phase out the well-established character of The Legend Killer and completely transform himself into The Viper both mentally and physically. When I say physically, think back to 2009 skinny bald Orton and compare that to 2004 Orton. However, it did take him several years from like 2007 to 2009 to fully come into the Viper gimmick, so once again I must mention that the consistent booking he received helped him a lot. The Legend Killer gimmick produced more good promos and matches in my opinion, but he couldn't pull off being a babyface with that character, and it almost derailed him after beating Benoit. Supposedly it was going to be him against Triple H in the main event of Wrestlemania 21 before plans switched to Batista.

In recent years he's been floating around as an established guy that who is just there to add star power and establish other guys because having him at the top of the card is stale. The matches with Bray Wyatt seemed to kill everyone's intensest in him. But before that, he was carrying a lot of momentum before getting squashed by Brock Lesnar. So to sum up the past 2-3 years of his career, there were some cool feuds with bad execution, and the rest of the time he's just been a solid hand that is still kinda over but not making any headlines either.
  • 0

User avatar
KaiserGlider Male
Ring General
Ring General
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 2204
Topics: 472
Age: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 1294

 


Return to WWE

Who is Online Now?

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Reputation System ©'