Top Matches Being Discussed for WrestleMania 31 Involving The Rock, Triple H & Sting; Who Will John Cena Face?

[Str8Shooter]

Genuinely surprised by some of the positivity for The Rock vs Triple H in this thread.

If you ask me, it's one of the top 5 silliest matches they could put on right now.

Why? It's a four hour show, having a 15 minute match between 2 over guys that the crowd (which has many casual watchers of the product) is into isn't going to be that silly. Ultimately these shows have a ton of filler stuff that doesn't end up meaning much anyway. At least this would be something memorable for people, rather than seeing something like Miz vs Sheamus for the US title which you'll see 50 times on Raw and SD in rematches after.

Are you seriously arguing that The Rock vs Triple H in 2015 is a good idea?

That was an interesting match 15 years ago. Not now.

Am I arguing it's a good idea? Possibly. I could make a better argument that's it's not a bad idea. Both might not be the in ring workers they used to be, but both guys can still talk, both guys are still over, and you would have a clear face/heel dynamic, which most of Rock's matches since his return have lacked.

People constantly bitch about the new stars being placed on the back burner for returning old stars. The same people saying this are the ones who don't bother to watch Raw when it's nothing but the new stars being prominently featured. Then WWE looks at the ratings and wonders why nobody is watching, causing them to bring back the old stars.

People that do that are basically helping to exacerbate the thing that they hate.

[Hanley!]

Yeah, my mind can't comprehend why people are interested in Triple H vs Rock. For starters this is the freaking WWE Network Era. If you want to get nostalgic about those guys, go back and see them in their prime. Listen to Triple H's awesome old music and see the Rock with some hair. Instant nostalgia. Watching them face each other now that they're 15 years older wouldn't make me nostalgic so much as bored. And a little bummed out that we still haven't moved on.

HHH you can pretty easily come up with an intriguing angle to get him back in the ring with the Authority angle and everything that would make it passable for him to have a match, but the Rock just makes zero sense to come back at this point.

Give Triple H the right opponent and he can work well in a feud. He's around on Raw often enough to actually promote a real angle rather than just a match with spectacle but no story. And he does play a compelling heel. Rock these days is nothing but a bunch of catchphrases and without the time to delve deeper, he's not an interesting character. Triple H can still deliver from time to time though. But only as a heel, and preferably by working against newer opponents. He was a great foil for Bryan, but when he was facing Lesnar as a face, nobody cared in the way they were supposed to.

And the thing about it is there isn't a guy on their roster better fit to play the American hero than Cena.

Sorry, but no. This isn't true.

Sure, part of Cena's deal is that he's a "true American". He was in the Marine and he talks about the troops and all that crap and he's a virtuous patriot and a role model for kids. Yada yada yada.

But people hate him.

I know this is the debate we've been having about Cena for years, but it's particularly important here. A (cartoonishly) old-fashioned villain needs an old-fashioned hero and as much as Cena is supposed to fill that role, he never will. People don't like him. He's the only wrestling face to be hated for a decade. That's not the person who should be beating Rusev.

When Rusev loses, people should be happy. People should be cheering for America and the fall of the evil Russian and all that patriotic stuff. That's the point. And people won't be cheering for America if he faces Cena. They'll be booing Cena instead.

This is a very simple angle that won't work if they complicate it with the ridiculous hated babyface being the one to finally defeat the less hated villain. There's only one reason to pursue this feud and that's to use the patriotism of the American fans to try and get them to actually cheer for Cena in a major match. That's probably the only reason they're considering this match for a pay per view as major as Wrestlemania.

They've done things like this so often before: setting up scenarios in a particular way as a desperate attempt to make fans like Cena. It's transparent, it's pathetic and most importantly it never actually works.

[Str8Shooter]

Read somewhere else on the net someone mentioned they should do this at Mania if Rock in a 1 on 1 match is too much.

The Rock, Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose vs Triple H, Randy Orton, Seth Rollins

I actually like this, the crowd would be hot as hell for it, and it would allow Bryan/Ambrose to do the heavy lifting allowing Rock not to blow up and hopefully have less chance of injuring himself. But would still allow him to get the hot tag and clean house with his signature moves.

[Hanley!]

People constantly bitch about the new stars being placed on the back burner for returning old stars. The same people saying this are the ones who don't bother to watch Raw when it's nothing but the new stars being prominently featured. Then WWE looks at the ratings and wonders why nobody is watching, causing them to bring back the old stars.

People that do that are basically helping to exacerbate the thing that they hate.

I don't understand why you're so adamant to place blame at the feet of the fans. But I'll give you a little extra perspective on the "new stars" argument:

Fans don't just want new wrestlers. They genuinely want new stars.

Numerous commentators and fans have been calling for WWE to start pushing new talent for years. It's not a new complaint. People made the observation that if they didn't start looking to the future, one day most of their big names would have left and they'd be struggling with a roster nobody gave a fuck about. It's 2014 now and that day has come.

It's not fair to say that fans are getting what they wanted now that a lot of the veterans have disappeared and we're seeing more young names in the mix. That's exactly what the fans wanted to avoid: seeing a whole bunch of nobodies facing off against each other. They wanted to see new stars who could continue on from the Attitude Era guys. WWE never gave us that.

You're trying to blame fans for not buying into the new talent, but what incentive have they been given? The company never tried to get the new talent over; they were always showcased as inferior until the older talent disappeared. Now these guys have no momentum, no credibility, and no track record for really entertaining us. WWE can easily use this as an excuse to keep going back to their old stars, but that'll only make the problem worse in the long run.

If WWE think their roster looks terrible in 2014, they should try imagining what it's going to look like in 2019. And then they should get their fucking shit together and actually put the effort in. Take a chance on a few guys, make some calculated risks. Because by now they're drowning in apathy and excuses.

Don't blame fans for not buying into newer talent. It's WWE's fault for not taking this problem seriously over the last 10 years. People were calling for WWE to start investing in the future back in 2006. It's 8 years later and they've made almost no progress. And now the fans are supposed to suddenly reward them, now that their house of cards has come tumbling down?

Fuck.
That.

[Hanley!]

Read somewhere else on the net someone mentioned they should do this at Mania if Rock in a 1 on 1 match is too much.

The Rock, Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose vs Triple H, Randy Orton, Seth Rollins

I actually like this, the crowd would be hot as hell for it, and it would allow Bryan/Ambrose to do the heavy lifting allowing Rock not to blow up and hopefully have less chance of injuring himself. But would still allow him to get the hot tag and clean house with his signature moves.

I don't know, with the roster as thin as it is, I don't think you waste Bryan in a 6 person tag match. Or some of the others mentioned. They should be using their biggest stars for singles matches so they can break things up with multi-man matches featuring stars people don't care about as much.

[The Legend]

Back in 2006 they were working on building up new stars, but every new guy the WWE were pushing would get the push and then get shit on by a certain element of the fanbase because they didn't measure up to the fantasized vision of stars they grew up on. They were building Cena and a certain element of the fanbase turned on him. They were building Orton and they turned, They were building Batista and they turned. There was a time where no matter what the WWE would push someone and as soon as they made it to the top they got trampled back down by the fans - even guys the fans were hoping they would push when their push started. You can't deny that there was a time where it almost became a game to shit on whoever for whatever made up reason people could come up with.

[Racing Guy]

Honestly, I'd rather see Hogan wrestle Rusev at this point. Just anyone other than Cena.

[Everlong]

Pro wrestling is ultimately all about telling stories through the storylines and in ring action. The story of the Russian asshole who comes to America telling everyone how shitty it is and how much better he is than Americans, has the logical conclusion that the big American Hero will end up putting him in his place and showing him he's wrong.

Rocky IV wouldn't have been much of a story if Ivan Drago obliterated Rocky in their fight in Russia, leaving him an unconscious mess.

Sorry but how exactly is that the only option for this story? Why can't the bad guy win every now and then? That's how you create big villains--the good guy can't always come out on top.

[The Legend]

Pro wrestling is ultimately all about telling stories through the storylines and in ring action. The story of the Russian asshole who comes to America telling everyone how shitty it is and how much better he is than Americans, has the logical conclusion that the big American Hero will end up putting him in his place and showing him he's wrong.

Rocky IV wouldn't have been much of a story if Ivan Drago obliterated Rocky in their fight in Russia, leaving him an unconscious mess.

Sorry but how exactly is that the only option for this story? Why can't the bad guy win every now and then? That's how you create big villains--the good guy can't always come out on top.

The bad guy is winning, ALOT. He's winning against Jack Swagger, he's winning against Mark Henry, he's winning against Big Show. He's winning against other guys. He's doing plenty of winning. Far more than will be necessary for him to stay strong after one simple loss. That's the thing, just because a guy loses a match doesn't have to mean his push is over I don't understand why more people can't get that.

And like it or not there are certain stories where the bad guy can win in the end and certain stories where they really shouldn't. This is one of the ones where the bad guy can't come out on top in the long run for one simple reason. If Rusev doesn't lose in this story it becomes a never ending loop of a story. He'll keep knocking Americans down and another American will pop up right behind the last to try and save America. For the Rusev character to truly grow and evolve he needs to be knocked off this track so he can be given another direction, otherwise he's really just treading water and the character is actually being hurt in the long run by winning.

I suppose you'll say they could change his character without a loss, but that would be illogical and stupid to me. Why would they just drop the angle all of a sudden and have people just give up on beating Rusev? It's horrible when WWE just let angles go away and fade into the ethos, I think we can all agree with that. There's really no way to end this story without the loss that makes sense and is satisfying conclusion to the story.

[Str8Shooter]

Pro wrestling is ultimately all about telling stories through the storylines and in ring action. The story of the Russian asshole who comes to America telling everyone how shitty it is and how much better he is than Americans, has the logical conclusion that the big American Hero will end up putting him in his place and showing him he's wrong.

Rocky IV wouldn't have been much of a story if Ivan Drago obliterated Rocky in their fight in Russia, leaving him an unconscious mess.

Sorry but how exactly is that the only option for this story? Why can't the bad guy win every now and then? That's how you create big villains--the good guy can't always come out on top.

The bad guy can win but for a story like this they can't win the Final battle, which is what WrestleMania is, or is supposed to be. There's no way that the evil foreigner is going to triumph overall in the end in a company as patriotic and arguable xenophobic as WWE is.

The bad guy Rusev already has triumphed over an "All American American" wearing stars and stripes, as well as a US Olympian. You can't tell me they haven't focused on pushing him, they've actually done a damn good job. The way they've built him thus far as long as he puts up a fight against Cena it should be no problem losing to the top guy.

[Str8Shooter]

If WWE think their roster looks terrible in 2014, they should try imagining what it's going to look like in 2019. And then they should get their fucking shit together and actually put the effort in.

Have you been paying attention to NXT at all? It's widely regarded, even by the most jaded people on here, as being the best wrestling show of the week, and people have been fawning over everyone that's being brought in and focused on there. They've spent years now bringing Sami Zayn, Prince Devitt, Kevin Steen, Kalisto, Kenta, and on and on with established independent stars and international stars.

They've shown that they are putting a focus on the future with all the money and energy spent on the performance center and NXT and the Network giving it special PPV's, etc.

If you ask me what their roster could look like in 2019, I'd say it could look pretty damn good.

[Hanley!]

If WWE think their roster looks terrible in 2014, they should try imagining what it's going to look like in 2019. And then they should get their fucking shit together and actually put the effort in.

Have you been paying attention to NXT at all? It's widely regarded, even by the most jaded people on here, as being the best wrestling show of the week, and people have been fawning over everyone that's being brought in and focused on there. They've spent years now bringing Sami Zayn, Prince Devitt, Kevin Steen, Kalisto, Kenta, and on and on with established independent stars and international stars.

They've shown that they are putting a focus on the future with all the money and energy spent on the performance center and NXT and the Network giving it special PPV's, etc.

If you ask me what their roster could look like in 2019, I'd say it could look pretty damn good.

They've never had a problem getting talent on their roster. They're the biggest wrestling company in America, they can get whatever talent they want. That's not the issue. The issue is turning those guys into stars. I'm not surprised that people like these guys when they're on NXT, but it's far from a foregone conclusion that they'll make it long term as stars once they get to Raw. Based on current form, I have no faith in the roster in 2019 at all. There might be a lot of talent there, but I don't believe there will be a lot of stars. Not by a long shot.

[Everlong]

Have you been paying attention to NXT at all? It's widely regarded, even by the most jaded people on here, as being the best wrestling show of the week, and people have been fawning over everyone that's being brought in and focused on there. They've spent years now bringing Sami Zayn, Prince Devitt, Kevin Steen, Kalisto, Kenta, and on and on with established independent stars and international stars.

'

I agree that they have a shit ton of talent, but do you honestly trust WWE to turn any of them into legitimate stars?

How many headline-quality stars has WWE created in the last ten years?

[The Legend]

Edge
John Cena
Randy Orton
Batista
Mr. Kennedy
CM Punk
Daniel Bryan

Just to name a few.

[Str8Shooter]

Have you been paying attention to NXT at all? It's widely regarded, even by the most jaded people on here, as being the best wrestling show of the week, and people have been fawning over everyone that's being brought in and focused on there. They've spent years now bringing Sami Zayn, Prince Devitt, Kevin Steen, Kalisto, Kenta, and on and on with established independent stars and international stars.

'

I agree that they have a shit ton of talent, but do you honestly trust WWE to turn any of them into legitimate stars?

How many headline-quality stars has WWE created in the last ten years?

They may not be able to do what it takes to turn them into "stars", but I think very little of that has anything to do with the appearances of the "old stars". Guys like Batista, Lesnar, Rock, Triple H aren't around enough to do that much damage. 95% of the year the rest of the regular roster are on their own, it's what's done in that time period that it doing the most disservice to them.

The roster is pretty loaded with good young talent right now, but I wouldn't say that anyone is being "held down". Randy Orton is one of those older stars who people find boring and repetitive, but he's barely done anything for months now but play a background role. Batista jobbed out pretty much his whole return and left, Triple H jobbed out to Daniel Bryan at Mania and has been in a talking role mostly since.

[Hanley!]

Edge
John Cena
Randy Orton
Batista
Mr. Kennedy
CM Punk
Daniel Bryan

Just to name a few.

You act like there's a bunch more, even though you already resorted to adding Mr. Kennedy to the list.

He's a perfect example of the kind of person who should have been on the list, but that they failed to go all the way with. There's a load of others from that period too. MVP, Carlito, Benjamin, etc.

I could argue the whole "WWE is crap at building stars and hasn't been making the effort" for a long time. And I can make a big long post about it later if you insist. But why should I have to? You know they're bad at this, John. You do. Nobody can make the argument that they've been doing their job in this area with a straight face.

[The Legend]

Edge
John Cena
Randy Orton
Batista
Mr. Kennedy
CM Punk
Daniel Bryan

Just to name a few.

You act like there's a bunch more, even though you already resorted to adding Mr. Kennedy to the list.

He's a perfect example of the kind of person who should have been on the list, but that they failed to go all the way with. There's a load of others from that period too. MVP, Carlito, Benjamin, etc.

I could argue the whole "WWE is crap at building stars and hasn't been making the effort" for a long time. And I can make a big long post about it later if you insist. But why should I have to? You know they're bad at this, John. You do. Nobody can make the argument that they've been doing their job in this area with a straight face.

Here's where you are going to run into trouble Steve. The guys you mention, including Kennedy all played a part in why they didn't make it to the top. It's not purely on WWE, but the other guys have to put the work in and have a good attitude about it when they go to work to do their jobs. All of those guys pretty much dropped the ball in those areas as much if not more than the WWE dropped the ball in building them up.

And I included Kennedy because they successfully built him up for a time as perhaps the hottest act in the company - even if it didn't last long for numerous reasons.

[Str8Shooter]

Kennedy never got to that status, but you can't say they weren't committed to it. He was all set to Mr. McMahon's illegitimate son if I recall, but I think he failed a wellness test or something right before. Not to mention he supposedly had attitude problems and was allegedly reckless in the ring.

Carlito pretty much didn't give a fuck about succeeding, so much so that they purposely had Ric Flair rip him for his lack of motivation in an on screen segment. Benjamin (as much as I loved him in ring) had a glaring lack of charisma and mic skills, and had incredible trouble connecting with fans his whole career as either a face or heel.

WWE has lots of guys they've worked to push the last few years that could work their way into the main event mix with a better, more focused push. Their problem is they get scared whenever someone gets close and pump the brakes on their pushes for some reason. Let's take a look:

- Cody Rhodes/Stardust : Was one of the most over guys during his and Goldusts tag title feud with The Shield. Not sure where this tag team thing is going as Stardust, but they could easily move him up after a breakup of some sort.

- Bray Wyatt/The Wyatts - Got over pretty quickly with their whole creepy gimmick, had crowds getting behind Bray, the singing and stuff. Bray was knocking on the main event door, had a clean win over Bryan at the Rumble. I don't know why they got depushed. But it wouldn't take much to get Bray back to that level.

- Cesaro : One of the poster children for this. Was a heel who was getting really over as a face with the swing and a hard hitting, entertaining match style. Got a huge pop for dumping Show out and winning the Andre Battle Royale. A big mistake aligning him with Heyman and keeping him a heel. Still, the crowd is just waiting for a chance to cheer this guy, so he can make it big whenever they want to pull the trigger.

- The ex Shield : Maybe the best thing WWE has done in years as far as creating new stars. All three of these guys are on the road to the top. Rollins could be champ sometime in the next years with MITB. Ambrose might be the most over of all of them, quickly becoming the next top babyface in the company with Bryan out. Reigns has everything they look for in a star and could very well be World Champ in 7 months time.

WWE has done a pretty good job of getting guys onto the roster and getting them to the level where they are on the cusp of stardom, it's just taking that last step and fully committing that they need to come to terms with.

[Messiah]

Back in 2006 they were working on building up new stars, but every new guy the WWE were pushing would get the push and then get shit on by a certain element of the fanbase because they didn't measure up to the fantasized vision of stars they grew up on. They were building Cena and a certain element of the fanbase turned on him. They were building Orton and they turned, They were building Batista and they turned. There was a time where no matter what the WWE would push someone and as soon as they made it to the top they got trampled back down by the fans - even guys the fans were hoping they would push when their push started. You can't deny that there was a time where it almost became a game to shit on whoever for whatever made up reason people could come up with.

You conveniently leave out the reasons for WHY fans turned.

Fans turned on Randy Orton because they stripped him of what fans loved about him initially and made him a cookie cutter babyface. Even after the WWE did this, fans were still behind him. Go back and look at his run as a face when it first started. Orton was getting enormous pops. But the WWE were not building Orton. They fed him to Triple H at the next pay-per-view and Orton was never treated on the same level as Triple H or anywhere close. When they actually gave Orton a semblance of character, Orton was beloved by everyone. Orton fans were rampant on the internet in 2009, during his run with Rated RKO, his feud vs. Undertaker, and even when he turned back face even though they were teetering on the side of making him, like they do with all their faces, cookie cutter.

The fans didn't turn on Batista either. The first time I remember hearing him get booed was in 2008, 3 years after his rise to the top. Despite them making him another cookie cutter babyface like Orton, fans were still behind him on SmackDown and he was as over as anyone else on the roster.

Nobody turned on CM Punk and Daniel Bryan because they actually had personality. You could get behind them because they gave you a reason to. It isn't because they are indy darlings. It is because you can rally behind them. You can't rally behind John Cena. It is like asking someone to rally behind the New York Yankees. The children are the people who live in New York and everyone else are the people outside of it. It is impossible to sympathize with Cena's character because 1) he always wins, 2) there is no actual obstacle for him to ever overcome (despite what the WWE wants us to think), 3) there is no character arc with him.

Ignoring CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, you have a guy like Edge who the fans never turned on. Why? Because Edge, face or heel, always had an identity. He gave you a reason to boo or cheer for him. People loved it. He had a PERSONALITY. This has nothing to do with the fans turning on every guy the WWE tries to build up. It has to do with the WWE miserably failing at building guys up.

And the fans will turn on Roman Reigns for the same reason. Why? Because there is no arc to his character and he isn't capable enough on the microphone (truth be told, he fucking sucks) to make a difference. And I love Reigns. I really do. But he is doomed for failure because he is already pretty much turning into another cookie cutter babyface. In 2014 when fans want to see Batman over Superman, nobody wants a bland Hulk Hogan attempted reincarnate.

WWE has done a pretty good job of getting guys onto the roster and getting them to the level where they are on the cusp of stardom, it's just taking that last step and fully committing that they need to come to terms with.

If this was the case, their midcard wouldn't suck so much. They have done a horrible job getting guys anywhere close to the cusp of stardom.

[SortaCreative]

Wrong way according to what exactly?

'

According to all the rules that you follow if you want to have any kind of hope of building a star. At this point, it'd make way more of an impact to have Rusev take down Cena at WrestleMania than it would for Cena to stomp on Rusev's momentum at WrestleMania.

Pro wrestling is ultimately all about telling stories through the storylines and in ring action. The story of the Russian asshole who comes to America telling everyone how shitty it is and how much better he is than Americans, has the logical conclusion that the big American Hero will end up putting him in his place and showing him he's wrong.

Rocky IV wouldn't have been much of a story if Ivan Drago obliterated Rocky in their fight in Russia, leaving him an unconscious mess.

Yes. Thank you. This element of things gets thrown out in wrestling by some fans all too often in this era. And the thing about it is there isn't a guy on their roster better fit to play the American hero than Cena. Now, the #1 scenario would be to have Kurt Angle return to face Rusev, but I'm not banking on Angle getting back in WWE, so if he doesn't come back then I dare anybody to point out a better face on the WWE roster than Cena to fill this role.

How about anyone other than John Cena?

What about John Cena makes him inherently Mr. America? Cos he's white, wears military cargo shorts and is the poster boy for Vinces muscle head fantasy?

John Cena is apparently the best choice but i'd argue he's the only choice. Mark Henry was a better choice imo, if built properly.

If they actually tried to properly build some fucking superstars, anyone born in the US of A could fill the shoes of taking down the big, bad, evil communist and marching off into the sunset with Old Glory fluttering behind them in the wind as the star spangled banner plays into an arena of patriots, standing tall, tears in their eyes.

Hell, Jack Swagger was probably the best option. Atleast he was already established in a pro america gimmick, albeit one that needed white cones and robes. This should have been Swaggers program. Why not elevate two superstars instead of building one just to be fed into the black hole that is John Cena.

When Swagger came out to face Rusev, it was pretty fucking good. The fans really got behind the Pro American and Anti Russian thing as much as I disagree with it. And from a storyline perspective, Swagger and Zeb actually made sense. They didn't suddenly become the All American hero, they were always an All American hero in their minds. If done properly, if given another month they could have done wonders for both guys. Instead Rusev squashed another person and moved on and I don't know where the fuck Swagger is now.

John Cena doesn't make sense. It's not secret I don't like him but why does it make absolute sense for Cena to just become what ever is needed at any given month. He's the underdog one month (vs. Brock Lesnar), the old guard testing the new guys one month (vs. Wyatt), Mr. America the third (apparently vs. Rusev), Anti Establishment for the fourth (as Champion). One character can be all these things absolutely, but Cena doesn't always portray every facet of these characters. They just happen to appear when they're good and ready to involve Cena in a match or a feud he has no logical business being in. His character is so bland and lacks any focus that he can just be poured into any story line he needs to be in like the lifeless, gelatinous, beige mass that he is. Make money out of his gooey substance.



This is John Cena. Rise above hate.