Is New Day a real thing?

[Hanley!]

I'm not asking it to be "different than it ever was". I just want it to be what it always has been at its best. Don't act like this cheap stereotype stuff is all wrestling has ever been and all it ever can be. It has been done better and it can be done better still.

Nor is it unusual for someone to grow up liking a program without being able to recognise or understand its racist/sexist trappings and later finding these aspects troubling. In this situation I would say it's quite normal to dislike the more troubling aspects of the show, without rejecting it completely.

It's a bit like entering your teenage years and realising your grandparents are kinda racist or xenophobic. You're not going to disown your own grandparents when you've known them your whole life and they've always treated you well. But you might encourage them not to act that way around you.

[axis]

Don't want to re-hash a dead topic, but what do you think of the Uso's current gimmick? Is that racism from the creative team?

[VaderBomb]

Don't want to re-hash a dead topic, but what do you think of the Uso's current gimmick? Is that racism from the creative team?

Not at all, they are embracing their culture and heritage.

[axis]

Don't want to re-hash a dead topic, but what do you think of the Uso's current gimmick? Is that racism from the creative team?

Not at all, they are embracing their culture and heritage.

So if Xavier Wood's father was a preacher, it wouldn't be racist then?

[VaderBomb]

Don't want to re-hash a dead topic, but what do you think of the Uso's current gimmick? Is that racism from the creative team?

Not at all, they are embracing their culture and heritage.

So if Xavier Wood's father was a preacher, it wouldn't be racist then?

I don't think that a New Day is racist, nor do I think that the Usos gimmick is.

[axis]

^^^ That was more addressed to the people that do think it is racist.

[VaderBomb]

I honestly kind of love a New Day. Big E has a great preacher voice and it's great to see all three of these guys legitimately happy and having fun.

[SortaCreative]

Don't want to re-hash a dead topic, but what do you think of the Uso's current gimmick? Is that racism from the creative team?

Not at all, they are embracing their culture and heritage.

So if Xavier Wood's father was a preacher, it wouldn't be racist then?

I'm not going to explain the difference between cultural heritage and racial stereotyping. You seem to clearly think you have a trump card with the Uso's. The problem is the Uso's aren't Casino Attendants on a reservation - which would make sense if they were NATIVE AMERICAN YOU FUCKING MORON TAJ - or grass skirt wearing dancers, idk any good Samoan sterotypes, they're two normal guys who happen to embrace their culture.

edit: I mixed up Native American and Samoan stereotypes. I left it in for a chuckle or some cheap points should you run out of things to argue about - like John below.

[The Legend]

Don't want to re-hash a dead topic, but what do you think of the Uso's current gimmick? Is that racism from the creative team?

Not at all, they are embracing their culture and heritage.

So if Xavier Wood's father was a preacher, it wouldn't be racist then?

I'm not going to explain the difference between cultural heritage and racial stereotyping. You seem to clearly think you have a trump card with the Uso's. The problem is the Uso's aren't Casino Attendants on a reservation, they're two normal guys who happen to embrace their culture.

They are also Samoan and not Native American. That more or less makes what you said the most racially insensitive thing in the entire topic.

[SortaCreative]

Don't want to re-hash a dead topic, but what do you think of the Uso's current gimmick? Is that racism from the creative team?

Not at all, they are embracing their culture and heritage.

So if Xavier Wood's father was a preacher, it wouldn't be racist then?

I'm not going to explain the difference between cultural heritage and racial stereotyping. You seem to clearly think you have a trump card with the Uso's. The problem is the Uso's aren't Casino Attendants on a reservation, they're two normal guys who happen to embrace their culture.

They are also Samoan and not Native American. That more or less makes what you said the most racially insensitive thing in the entire topic.

Whatever, insert applicable Samoan stereotype, point still stands. My mistake! Apologies for any offense caused to anyone.

Also, I just farted John, best stop jumping on my arse for every mistake

[axis]

You know what I think, that Django in the movie Django unchained should have been played by Leonardo DiCaprio to avoid racism claims towards Tarrantino. Racial stereotyping that only a person of African American descent can play an African American slave makes me sick. The film industry has so many racist people involved in it and there are so many cases of racism that I really wish someone new would take over it.

How do we know that the idea for 'the New Day' hasn't been in the works for a while, and they have just found the performers to play the part?

Personally I think the gimmick is dated, but we haven't exactly seen anything out of it yet so I'm willing to reserve judgement until they actually do something.

[SortaCreative]

You know what I think, that Django in the movie Django unchained should have been played by Leonardo DiCaprio to avoid racism claims towards Tarrantino. Racial stereotyping that only a person of African American descent can play an African American slave makes me sick. The film industry has so many racist people involved in it and there are so many cases of racism that I really wish someone new would take over it.

Seriously?

[axis]

You know what I think, that Django in the movie Django unchained should have been played by Leonardo DiCaprio to avoid racism claims towards Tarrantino. Racial stereotyping that only a person of African American descent can play an African American slave makes me sick. The film industry has so many racist people involved in it and there are so many cases of racism that I really wish someone new would take over it.

Seriously?

Maybe I should have put a heavy sarcasm tag in there. I thought it was fairly obvious though.

[SortaCreative]

You know what I think, that Django in the movie Django unchained should have been played by Leonardo DiCaprio to avoid racism claims towards Tarrantino. Racial stereotyping that only a person of African American descent can play an African American slave makes me sick. The film industry has so many racist people involved in it and there are so many cases of racism that I really wish someone new would take over it.

Seriously?

Maybe I should have put a heavy sarcasm tag in there. I thought it was fairly obvious though.

Ok, you win. Because broad racial stereo typing is the same as stylised film making based on historical facts.

Let's all await the next brown terrorist, savage or brute gimmick while booing the Russian because he doesn't want to pledge allegiance to a flag that isn't his own. It won't be all bad, we'll have some comedy laughs from the black gangsters as they try and steal the Mexican's lawnmower to kill the matador's midget bull. It's no biggie though because we'll have plenty of pseudo lesbian divas to keep us warm at night until the next great gimmick of 2014 debuts. Although really, they'll need to be cleansed of these sinful thoughts so it's a good thing the New Day are around.

Does this need a heavy sarcasm tag?

[SlightlyJames]

^ I don't really think either of you are making your points particularly well. The fact that Muhammad Hassan or Cryme Tyme exist does not make the New Day racist by association. I totally agree that the way Rusev is being handled is bullshit and there's close to zero reason to boo the guy, it shows that there's definitely a bit of a bogus mindset amongst the creative powers of WWE.

The New Day is a stereotypical gimmick and some people take issue with that but unlike Cryme Tyme or Muhammad Hassan this isn't a harmful stereotype and that's the distinction I feel needs to be made.

At the same time though it's ridiculous how people are reacting to this discussion, there seems to have been a lot of backlash from some people based on the fact that we are even discussing the possibility of it being a racist gimmick. I personally don't feel that it is but responding with over the top bullshit like Axis has been doesn't help anyone either. A lot of the times on here disagreements turn in to shit flinging rather than having rational discussions and nothing really gets done that way.

[Hanley!]

You know what I think, that Django in the movie Django unchained should have been played by Leonardo DiCaprio to avoid racism claims towards Tarrantino. Racial stereotyping that only a person of African American descent can play an African American slave makes me sick. The film industry has so many racist people involved in it and there are so many cases of racism that I really wish someone new would take over it.

This comment was probably only intended to annoy people, but it is very dumb. A black slave needs to be played by a black person obviously, but that in no way means the opposite is true: a black person who can be given any persona doesn't need to portray a slave simply because black slaves existed. That's what we're trying to say here. The sort of figure portrayed by the New Day does actually exist. Black gang members and thugs do exist. Black voodoo priests probably even existed in some form or another. But that doesn't mean it's not insensitive as fuck to only cast black characters as black stereotypes. To be pigeonholed because of the colour of your skin is racist. By definition.

If people think that this New Day gimmick is tamer and less offensive than a lot of the other ones that have been mentioned, I happen to agree with you. But it's still an example of black performers being judged by their colour first. They took three black guys and put them in a stable together, just because they were the same colour. They spent a while coming up with what that stable would be and they landed on a stereotype because of course they did. And a white group wouldn't have received the same treatment.

I think I've made myself pretty clear at this point anyway, but I'm going to reiterate that the process is more offensive than the gimmick itself because it proves that the company has basically reduced these guys to the colour of their skin. Also, it's worth noting that while something in isolation might not be questionable, it might be a part of a larger trend which is very bothersome.

Axis, you already brought up movies so I'll use that as an example. Casting a white male as the lead of a movie is perfectly acceptable. But then you look at Hollywood overall and see there are a very limited number of films focusing on female or non-white leads. You'll also see that there are a large number of films that use white actors to play fictional characters or historical figures that are non-white. One such film in isolation isn't necessarily such a bad thing, but together all of these films create an ugly trend.

That's mostly what I'm complaining about here: not just that black characters have been saddled with a black stereotype gimmick, but that this is the case for non-white wrestlers 9 times out of 10. WWE sees white people as people, but almost willfully sees non-whites as other.

And it sees women as sex objects but that's a whole different conversation.

[Str8Shooter]

Well what the hell else is the reason for the three of them being in a group together? None of the three of them have any character developed at all, the only thing that we know about any of them is they're black.

[Hanley!]

Well what the hell else is the reason for the three of them being in a group together? None of the three of them have any character developed at all, the only thing that we know about any of them is they're black.

Not sure if you're defending WWE here or what.

[SKS]

I'm not sure if this conversation is ever going to reach a conclusion, but I'll say that I like the group. Nothing they've done on RAW or SD! has been overly racist or even stereotypical. Just 3 guys that happen to be black having fun, clapping, and wrestling. Their costumes are quite bright, but it doesn't look like much of a gospel choir attire to me. I think it's been blown way out of proportion. They're just saying it's a new day for their careers and a fresh start. The Rusev stuff I get, it's lazy booking. But this isn't the case with The New Day at least IMO.

[Westcoastvibes]

I have a thought but I don't know how to verbalize it so please bear with me on this.

The just of the argument seems to be a culmination of stereotypes/racist gimmicks being used in wwe by all but white performers. Now here comes the poorly worded thought. ...

Could this be happening because of the lack of potentially entertaining stereotypes for the white population? You got redneck and any other version of redneck like hillybilly, inbred redneck, cowboy redneck, ect, white collar worker, blue collar worker, farmer, and a whole bunch of others that may be stereotypes but they don't stack very high when you are trying to make people be entertained by their lifestyle. A group like cryme tyme was racist but the performers embraced it and the fans loved it, the over exaggerated stereotyped shenanigans is what sold them. Now, I can see a overly redneck type group being embraced by the fans but other than that I can't really see any other white stereotype being effective from a entertainment standpoint.

Just a thought, don't crucify me over it.