Where does John Cena rank among the all-time greats?

[Hanley!]

Where does Cena rank among the all-time greats? Right above Ultimate Warrior.

Your opinion is always one I love to hear but come on. I don't disagree with you through the rest of this thread with your thoughts on John Cena but I would certainly put him quite a bit higher than the Ultimate Warrior, who was entertaining but a lot more dreadful in the ring. But I guess it depends on who else you have above Warrior.

Maybe he's not right above Ultimate Warrior, but I think it's a fair comparison.

By comparing him to Warrior, I intended to mitigate some of the claims that we were bound to get throughout the rest of the thread (and indeed have) about Cena being one of the all time greats simply because of how much he has achieved in kayfabe terms. I don't think anyone here would even consider Ultimate Warrior for a top 10 or top 20 greatest performers of all time list. But much like Cena, he was pushed as though he was one of the best ever.

Neither are up there with the best when it comes to being beloved, or when it comes to talent. That's the point I was getting at. And while Cena is better than Warrior in the ring, he's closer to Warrior than to the likes of Randy Savage.

Randy Savage has never reached the draw that John Cena has

Actually, Randy Savage's year as champion was the most successful year of that era in financial terms. The WWE did stellar business with Savage at the helm. So yes, he was more of a draw than Cena. He just didn't wear out his welcome by remaining top face for years afterwards. Hogan was more of a draw than Savage overall, so the company put the belt back on Hogan. Just because they refuse to make those smart calls when it comes to Cena, that doesn't make him more of a draw than Savage. Not by a long shot.

[Daz]

Cena's beyond being carried to a great match at this point. He's a great worker in his own right. I find it absolutely ridiculous to say otherwise.

[Str8Shooter]

You can't doubt any of his accomplishments, the guy has done it all, I mean he's literally had a 10 year run on top as a main event guy. How many guys have had that kind of staying power and longevity, maybe Hogan amongst modern wrestling, and that's it.

Why does everyone keep bringing this up? Cena has had a 10 year run as a main event guy but it certainly doesn't prove staying power. Interest in the WWE has steadily declined every year with him on top. Unless he is competing against The Rock, when was the last time his match was something people really looked forward to at WrestleMania? He sells the most merchandise but only because he is positioned to accomplish that considering Cena has the most merchandise made for him, by far (something some of you don't bother to mention). There is a reason CM Punk outsold him in merchandise by the end of 2011.

John Cena has been on top for 10+ years because wrestlers these days seem to naturally last a lot longer than they did before. Quality > Quantity. As a sports example, Favre outlasted Montana and I certainly wouldn't consider him a better quarterback. Cena has done nothing to change the industry.

And people act as if he is being booed simply because it is the "IWC" era. Fans love Daniel Bryan. Fans love CM Punk. Fans still love The Undertaker. Fans still cheer for Triple H. Cena gets mixed reactions because a majority of the audience does not find him interesting at all. I am sure if they made a shitload of merchandise for Batista, he would be high up there in merchandise sales too. Doesn't change the fact the fans don't find him interesting and believe he sucks.

Being on top for 10 years doesn't prove staying power? That's exactly what it proves actually.

Business has been on the decline for the past 10 years? I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. WWE still does very well business-wise. Cena moves the most merch because he has the most merch made? I'm not sure that's true either, Cena moves merch because WWE has more young fans than they've had in decades, which can be widely attributed to Cena himself and those very kids loving him. Those same kids that are harassing their parents to buy tickets and PPV's and Cena t-shirts. I think you could make an argument that John Cena has actually kept the WWE from falling off even further than it has the past 10 years.

[Hanley!]

WWE has more young fans than they've had in decades ...

Say what now?

[Str8Shooter]

WWE has more young fans than they've had in decades ...

Say what now?

Kids. Children. The product is more kid friendly. It's PG now, you may have heard about it.

There's more kids in the crowd now than there's been in a long, long time. One would assume they will continue to be fans as they get older.

[Hanley!]

WWE has more young fans than they've had in decades ...

Say what now?

Kids. Children. The product is more kid friendly. It's PG now, you may have heard about it.

There's more kids in the crowd now than there's been in a long, long time. One would assume they will continue to be fans as they get older.

"The product is more kid friendly" and "WWE has more young fans than they've had in decades" are very different statements and only one of them is true.

[Str8Shooter]

WWE has more young fans than they've had in decades ...

Say what now?

Kids. Children. The product is more kid friendly. It's PG now, you may have heard about it.

There's more kids in the crowd now than there's been in a long, long time. One would assume they will continue to be fans as they get older.

"The product is more kid friendly" and "WWE has more young fans than they've had in decades" are very different statements and only one of them is true.

So you think they had more 10 year old and under fans a decade ago in 2004 than they have now?

[Hanley!]

Yes.

And 15 years ago they had far, far more.

[Str8Shooter]

Yes.

And 15 years ago they had far, far more.

Well the Attitude Era was a different beast. But I went to WWE shows 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and more recently. And there's definitely more kids at Live Events now than there was 10 years ago.

[Kyle]

Cena has been a hard worker for the company for over a decade now, and he should be praised for that. But he's been at the top for as long as he's been because management has refused to listen to the fans and continued to shove him down our throats after 2007. Sure, he draws big with the younger generation - so did Hogan, Savage, Bret, HBK, and Rock. Wrestling has always been an entertainment form that kids will follow, regardless of who is there. Daniel Bryan is more over than Cena EVER was in the last 10 years, and he's over with everybody - not just those 15 and under. Same with Punk.

Yes, he has had many great matches, some of which he actually performed very well. But I could easily name 50 wrestlers who have better in-ring ability. Mic skills, he has always been one of the best but his character's staleness for the better part of the last 8 years has made a lot of his feuds and segments just too familiar.

I'd probably put him 11-20 just because of who he is, but there is no way I can put him above Hogan, Rock, Austin, HBK, Hart, HHH, Undertaker, Flair, Angle, Edge, Guerrero, and Benoit. Cena may be better than some of those guys in particular aspects like mic ability or charisma, but 20 years from now, when you want to revisit your past, who are you more likely to watch if you want to see a great wrestling match? Benoit or Cena?