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WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby Hanley! » Mar 30, '17, 1:52 pm

Okay, if I try to respond to all of that piece by piece, I'll go insane. :lol

So if I miss something important you can let me know, I'm just going to touch on a few things to keep the conversation going.

First of all, I'm surprised you liked the Banks vs Jax matches. I didn't watch Fastlane, but I hadn't heard positive things and their previous pay per view match was pretty bad. If you ask me, Nia Jax just isn't ready for Raw let alone a major match at Wrestlemania. She's a liability in the ring and has very little personality. She's so far out of her depth that it's painful. In fairness we were saying that about Strowman a few months ago and now he's got something ... but Jax has had more matches than Strowman and she hasn't improved.

And yeah, I still think her being added to the match is pretty random. I mean the essence of this story is that Charlotte is messing with Sasha and Bayley's friendship, and she might actually have a point. Jax doesn't belong in that story and her being in there makes the story and the match worse.

It's also just very disappointing that this is what they're going with. They could have had Bayley win the title from Charlotte at Wrestlemania. They could have had Sasha turn on Bayley and had that match at Wrestlemania. Those were matches fans actively wanted. This is weak in comparison.

You were right in saying that we usually get weak women's matches at Wrestlemania - but that's no reason to celebrate this one. Especially because for the first time ever, the women's division was one of the highlights of the year last year. If they had gone with Bayley vs Sasha or Bayley vs Charlotte that would have been one of the matches that would have really got me excited about Wrestlemania.

Also, I appreciate that we get weak women's at Wrestlemania regularly. And that we get pretty blandly booked feuds like Undertaker vs Reigns all the time. But that doesn't make me hypocritical for being down on Wrestlemania this year. Because I hate Wrestlemania generally. This is well documented. :P


I'm not even more negative about this year's Wrestlemania than usual. Just more apathetic. And I think that's because I'm just not passionate about any of it either way. Usually there's at least something happening at Wrestlemania that I'm excited about. Or there might be something that I hate so much that it gets me invested in a less enjoyable way. The fact is that nothing about this show is that bad. There are no horrible matches or stories for Wrestlemania this year. But there aren't any great ones either.


I understand a lot of your defenses of the product, and I can see how you could begin to be optimistic. But I just don't see anything there to be genuinely excited about. No babyfaces that I really want to see win. No exciting possibilities that I'm anticipating. No matches that I'm invested in emotionally. That's the important part. This card could deliver. There are a bunch of matches that could go either way quality wise. If they all go the right way, then it could be a very entertaining show. But even if that does happen, the show will still have lost something by them not giving fans enough reason to invest emotionally.

As a European, there's a pretty easy standard for me to use when it comes to judging my excitement levels for a wrestling card: would I be willing to stay up until after 4am to watch the show live? Nothing is giving me that incentive to deprive myself of sleep.


Finally on the NXT thing, I agree that this is a weak Takeover. And much like Wrestlemania, I don't think it's possible for them to deliver an excellent show, because build always factors into how good a show is. But people tend to be more optimistic about Takeovers because they're so consistent. The matches tend to be very high quality. Fans like the faces and want them to win. The faces generally do win, unless it's the right time for them to lose. The shows are just the right length. The stories are simple. Takeovers do the basics and do them well.

But yeah, my expectations are being set at a reasonable level for this one. The matches are very lacking in story, and some of them have been added out of nowhere at the last minute. I'm not particularly excited for the show, but I have confidence that I will enjoy it because of their track record.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby Messiah » Mar 30, '17, 2:43 pm

Hanley! wrote:First of all, I'm surprised you liked the Banks vs Jax matches. I didn't watch Fastlane, but I hadn't heard positive things and their previous pay per view match was pretty bad. If you ask me, Nia Jax just isn't ready for Raw let alone a major match at Wrestlemania. She's a liability in the ring and has very little personality. She's so far out of her depth that it's painful. In fairness we were saying that about Strowman a few months ago and now he's got something ... but Jax has had more matches than Strowman and she hasn't improved.


Jax isn't anything special in the ring, but the matches worked well together because Banks is amazing at playing the babyface in peril. As a character, she is probably better suited to be a heel, but the way she wrestles makes it easy to root for her against a monster like Jax. The way she sold the match and won the match was very well done in my opinion. I would give it a watch.

You were right in saying that we usually get weak women's matches at Wrestlemania - but that's no reason to celebrate this one. Especially because for the first time ever, the women's division was one of the highlights of the year last year. If they had gone with Bayley vs Sasha or Bayley vs Charlotte that would have been one of the matches that would have really got me excited about Wrestlemania.


I'm not trying to imply that just because we get weak women's matches at WrestleMania (generally), then we should accept a weak one here. I guess the difference is I don't think this is a weak match. In reality, Jax will probably be the first woman eliminated leaving it down to Bayley, Charlotte, and Banks. I'm really interested in seeing how that goes down.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby Messiah » Mar 30, '17, 2:54 pm

I think the source of a lot of the apathy is Lesnar/Goldberg, which I understand. If the main event was something along the lines of A.J. Styles vs John Cena instead, I really think the entire card would be seen in a different light because the under-card is strong compared to other WrestleMania. Your show is only as strong as your main event applies here and the majority of people simply don't care to see Goldberg and Lesnar wrestle.

For example, not including Cena and Styles' matches because in this hypothetical they would be in the main event, here is the under-card for WrestleMania 33 (with Wyatt and Orton moving to the under-card because the title would no longer be involved): Orton/Wyatt, HHH/Rollins, Owens/Jericho, Undertaker/Reigns, Bayley/Charlotte/Banks/Jax, a three-way tag team ladder match, Ambrose/Corbin.

That is a strong under-card than most WrestleMania's. It undoubtedly shits on WrestleMania 32's under-card. I think it would compare favorably with WrestleMania 24's for example.

WM24: JBL/Finlay, Batista/Umaga, MITB, Kane/Guerrero, Michaels/Flair, Playboy Bunny, Mayweather/Show

You can't tell me WrestleMania 33 doesn't have a stronger under-card, both in story and match quality (in all likelihood). This is coming from someone who thinks WrestleMania 24 is one of the greatest and underrated PPVs in WWE history.

I'm just saying. Look at this card in comparison to other WrestleMania's. It is one of the better ones. Like I said, I see why some people aren't interested, but it isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. This show lacks that one BIG match people usually look forward to at WrestleMania, but it has a bunch of good ones lined up. If Lesnar/Goldberg wasn't such an underwhelming WrestleMania main event, I believe more people would be hyped up about it.

Still, it's a good card. It stacks up favorably with WrestleMania cards of the past. It could have been better, but it will be a good show.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby Hanley! » Mar 30, '17, 3:15 pm

I love Wrestlemania 24, so I can't say that the under-card is stronger this year. I mean some of the undercard matches were weak, and it was the strong main event that did more than anything else to make that show great. But there were a lot of good spots on the under-card too.

Money in the Bank that year was strong - there were a lot of guys in the match who seemed like they were on the cusp of breaking out. And the winner actually did.

Mayweather vs Big Show was something really different, which had a unique build with a couple of real stand out moments. The match ended up being a ton of fun too.

Then there was Flair/Michaels. Which was arguably the emotional core of the show. I thought the match was overrated at the time, but it was decent. More importantly the build was compelling and the emotional payoff for the match was genuinely great.

I'm not sure if Wrestlemania 33 quite lives up to that in terms of the under-card. But you're probably right about the main event. If there was something stronger on top, people would be more excited about the entire show. The main event is always the most important thing. It's the reason why people remember Wrestlemania 30 so fondly, while the build for that show was worse than the build for this one really.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby Messiah » Mar 30, '17, 4:00 pm

Hanley! wrote:I love Wrestlemania 24, so I can't say that the under-card is stronger this year. I mean some of the undercard matches were weak, and it was the strong main event that did more than anything else to make that show great. But there were a lot of good spots on the under-card too.


I loved WrestleMania 24's under-card, personally. I didn't mean for it to come across as me criticizing it. On top of what you said, Finaly and JBL had a really underrated opener. However, I see more potential with this years show as far as the under-card goes.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby Hanley! » Mar 30, '17, 4:05 pm

I didn't mention Finlay vs JBL because while the match was great, the build was incredibly shitty. :lol

Given Wrestlemania 33 hasn't actually happened yet, it's not really fair to factor match quality into the comparison.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby KaiserGlider » Mar 30, '17, 11:13 pm

This is quite the Wrestlemania season thread. I dig it. :turight

I want to add my 2 cents by bringing up an argument that hasn't been responded to very much - the fans not having any strong babyfaces to be emotionally invested in this year. I disagree with that, and I give you Chris Jericho, Seth Rollins, and Austin Aries as examples, at least when it comes to the singles matches. They are all over with the fans, and all three are fighting heels that have a long history of fucking them over and/or being a dominant unlikable champion.

Seth Rollins in particular has been the best babyface in the company over the past month in terms of having to really fight from underneath and gaining fan sympathy. Most people including me would probably agree that Seth's initial run as a babyfave in the months following Triple H's betrayal when Haitch was absent from TV were mishandled, but they've really come back from that and turned this into arguably the hottest feud week-to-week on the road to Wrestlemania. There have been several segments where Rollins looked like a total badass and got massive cheers. Both he and Triple H have carried the mic work in the feud very well. I thought Rollins cut one of the best promos of his career on the last Raw. So based on what I've seen, the fans are invested in this match and in Seth Rollins. I'm invested. I want Seth to fuck that son of a bitch up.

Everyone seems to agree that Jericho/Owens has had a great build. Jericho has been arguably the most universally likable and over wrestler for months now, and there is fan investment in seeing him get even with Owens. I absolutely agree that not having the world title involved has definitely hurt that aspect of things, but the point is that they do have strong babyfaces currently.

Austin Aries got a great reaction when he challenged Neville for the cruiserweight title. Neville has been unstoppable since returning as a heel, so there's fan investment in finally seeing someone take the belt off of him. Plus commentators have been hyping how this is Aries's first Wrestlemania and how hard he's worked to get there. Knowing that you've also been an Aries fan since his TNA days, Hanley, I'm surprised that the prospect of seeing him win a championship at Wrestlemania doesn't excite you at all.

Goldberg/Lesnar has been getting a bad rap around here lately and as one of the the few... the proud... that are excited about that match, I feel the need to explain myself. The main reason I'm looking forward to it is because I'm not sure how it will play out. That makes it seem like a real fight to me. It's a match that could end at any moment because they've established that both guys can squash the elite. Another element is that since his return we've never seen Goldberg beat an opponent who isn't distracted, so it's uncertain how he will fare when he no longer has that advantage. With most of the other matches it's much easier to predict a formula and a structure, but this match could go 1 minute or 15. Goldberg has been hinting that he and Brock are going to go all-out at Wrestlemania, and even though the Universal Title has no business being involved in this match, the fact that this is the main event makes me more optimistic that it will be more than another quick squash. Lesnar is not the traditional babyface chasing the heel here, but so what? All that matters is that people have a reason to want to see this. "What will happen in this match?" is my reason, and it's good enough for me. I think it's a more exciting main event than last year's, and even though neither Brock not Bill should be holding the belt post-Mania, there are worse directions to go than having the belt becoming prestigious once again because it's being held by the most dominant man in wrestling.

Ultimately, in my opinion the three main reasons some people aren't as hyped for Wrestlemania this year is 1) the product during the rest of the past year has been better than usual, 2) last year's Wrestlemania wasn't good, 3) too heavy emphasis on part-timers over full-timers. All three of these reasons in some degree contribute to making Wrestlemania this year feel less special and less significant than it usually does.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby The Legend » Mar 31, '17, 4:51 am

One thing, it's hard to invest too much in Jericho, knowing he's out the door soon - just like Goldberg.
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby KaiserGlider » Mar 31, '17, 5:02 pm

The Legend wrote:One thing, it's hard to invest too much in Jericho, knowing he's out the door soon - just like Goldberg.


I did not know that. :(
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Re: WrestleMania is this weekend. Is there any hype?

Postby The Legend » Mar 31, '17, 10:57 pm

KaiserGlider wrote:
The Legend wrote:One thing, it's hard to invest too much in Jericho, knowing he's out the door soon - just like Goldberg.


I did not know that. :(


He's got his annual post Mania Fozzy tour.
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